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Dataman
Ace Cruncher Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 4865 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THE OPINIONS OF WCG’s CRUNCHER COMMUNITY
----------------------------------------The topic of BitCoins is currently raging through the DC community. Although claimed to be a way to fund research projects, this peer-to-peer technology does appear to be a bit mysterious and raises issues from security to ethics.. I will not attempt to explain how it works as I do not completely understand it myself. Here is a link to a BitCoins PDF: http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf Also, GPUGrid has introduced this “technology” in a new project “Donate@Home” http://donateathome.org/ My team is currently voting to determine if we are going to recognizance Donate@Home as a real “Project” which we will support. I have chosen not to support it at this time (even though I hear it pays an obscene amount of credits). WHAT DO YOU THINK? ![]() ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by Dataman at Feb 15, 2012 6:32:01 PM] |
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Jack007
Master Cruncher CANADA Joined: Feb 25, 2005 Post Count: 1604 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I looked into it,
----------------------------------------wasn't impressed couldnt figure out much, like the concept though, if anyone has any luck LET US KNOW! ![]() |
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nanoprobe
Master Cruncher Classified Joined: Aug 29, 2008 Post Count: 2998 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
There was a huge discussion about it over at the Xtreme systems forums that's been going on for almost a year. Some there got really involved but have since scaled back or quit altogether. Some claimed they made money but there were a lot of problems with hackers and other crap. If interested I can post a link. Personally, I don't care much about it either way.
----------------------------------------While I understand the Donate@Home project I wouldn't volunteer my machines to run it. I would be more inclined to just donate money to GPUgrid than use my resources to raise money by bitcoin mining. JMHO
In 1969 I took an oath to defend and protect the U S Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and Domestic. There was no expiration date.
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Dataman
Ace Cruncher Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 4865 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Thanks Jack and nano. B@A seems to be voting No by an unexpected majority.
----------------------------------------To stimulate discussion, I will offer a question. If you read the PDF, one can understand the process. But tell me dear crunchers ... can anyone "follow the money"? Food for thought? As always crunch on ... but beware of trojans with horses ... ![]() ![]() ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by Dataman at Feb 16, 2012 2:46:35 AM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Although claimed to be a way to fund research projects, this peer-to-peer technology does appear to be a bit mysterious and raises issues from security to ethics. I'll attempt to de-mystify... For anyone wondering what work their GPU would be doing by joining D@H, essentially you are joining the bitcoin payment processing system and performing two functions: 1)recording bitcoin transactions, and 2) ensuring the security/integrity of the bitcoin transaction record. The bitcoin system compensates participants by awarding 50BTC at predictable intervals to a participant or pool of participants who validate the transaction record by being the first in the network to solve a cryptographic puzzle (the "mining" process). The participant or pool that collects the reward can then sell the BTC to buyers on bitcoin exchanges for hard currency. D@H has wrapped the bitcoin transaction processing code in a BOINC app so they can build and run a bitcoin mining pool. But instead of distributing bitcoins mined by the pool to the pool's participants, bitcoins generated by D@H will be sold on an exchange and the proceeds will be used to fund GPUGRID research. Even though the price of BTC isn't what it used to be, mining can still be profitable if one's hardware & electricity costs are low. Obviously hardware/electricity costs for D@H are provided by volunteers, so they should have no trouble generating funds as long as bitcoin prices don't collapse completely. HOWEVER, nVidia cards are VERY ill-suited for bitcoin mining. D@H currently allows nVidia GPUs to participate, which is a shameful waste of volunteer's electricity and computing resources IMO. I really hope they will make the project AMD only. (not sure if that cleared anything up for anybody) :-/ ___________________________________________________________ While I don't see any security risks in joining D@H, I would agree there are ethical questions surrounding bitcoin - and in utilizing BOINC to support bitcoin. I think the most important thing for potential D@H volunteers to do is educate themselves on the matter so they know what they're getting into. The Satoshi paper Dataman linked to is a good start, but it really only describes two things: the "problem" the bitcoin payment system purports to solve, and the mechanics of bitcoin transaction processing/security. Anyone looking to judge whether or not bitcoin is a societal good before joining D@H should evaluate what bitcoin has become, not what Satoshi promised it would be. Of course, anyone who agrees that "the ends justifies the means" in this case should have no problems joining up without giving it a second thought. ![]() |
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Dataman
Ace Cruncher Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 4865 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Although claimed to be a way to fund research projects, this peer-to-peer technology does appear to be a bit mysterious and raises issues from security to ethics. I'll attempt to de-mystify... For anyone wondering what work their GPU would be doing by joining D@H, essentially you are joining the bitcoin payment processing system and performing two functions: 1)recording bitcoin transactions, and 2) ensuring the security/integrity of the bitcoin transaction record. The bitcoin system compensates participants by awarding 50BTC at predictable intervals to a participant or pool of participants who validate the transaction record by being the first in the network to solve a cryptographic puzzle (the "mining" process). The participant or pool that collects the reward can then sell the BTC to buyers on bitcoin exchanges for hard currency. D@H has wrapped the bitcoin transaction processing code in a BOINC app so they can build and run a bitcoin mining pool. But instead of distributing bitcoins mined by the pool to the pool's participants, bitcoins generated by D@H will be sold on an exchange and the proceeds will be used to fund GPUGRID research. Even though the price of BTC isn't what it used to be, mining can still be profitable if one's hardware & electricity costs are low. Obviously hardware/electricity costs for D@H are provided by volunteers, so they should have no trouble generating funds as long as bitcoin prices don't collapse completely. HOWEVER, nVidia cards are VERY ill-suited for bitcoin mining. D@H currently allows nVidia GPUs to participate, which is a shameful waste of volunteer's electricity and computing resources IMO. I really hope they will make the project AMD only. (not sure if that cleared anything up for anybody) :-/ ___________________________________________________________ While I don't see any security risks in joining D@H, I would agree there are ethical questions surrounding bitcoin - and in utilizing BOINC to support bitcoin. I think the most important thing for potential D@H volunteers to do is educate themselves on the matter so they know what they're getting into. The Satoshi paper Dataman linked to is a good start, but it really only describes two things: the "problem" the bitcoin payment system purports to solve, and the mechanics of bitcoin transaction processing/security. Anyone looking to judge whether or not bitcoin is a societal good before joining D@H should evaluate what bitcoin has become, not what Satoshi promised it would be. Of course, anyone who agrees that "the ends justifies the means" in this case should have no problems joining up without giving it a second thought. ![]() Thanks SMTB1963. Another piece to the puzzle. ![]() ![]() |
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Sgt.Joe
Ace Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 4, 2006 Post Count: 7687 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I am not sure what to think. The paper is somewhat over my head, especially the probability part of it. I partially understand what a Poisson distribution is, but can not follow the mathematics. The premise that the honest network will always be larger(have more cpu power) than the dishonest network could be the flaw which sinks this ship. I am also unclear about maintaining the integrity of the time stamp server(s). If I understood it better I could offer a better opinion. I am also unclear on exactly why this is needed in the context of the grid.
----------------------------------------Many years ago I seem to remember Bob Metcalfe, the inventor of ethernet, advancing some plan for an electronic medium of exchange, but that was sometime in the early 1990's I think. I do not remember any of the details. Cheers
Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers* |
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Dataman
Ace Cruncher Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 4865 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I am also unclear on exactly why this is needed in the context of the grid. And that is why I posted this thread. ![]() Thanks Sgt.Joe. ![]() ![]() |
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Dataman
Ace Cruncher Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 4865 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Of course, anyone who agrees that "the ends justifies the means" in this case should have no problems joining up without giving it a second thought. A very interesting comment, SMTB1963. Sometimes I think if there was a new project "Crunching for Pedophilia"" some segment of our community would automatically "opt in" for a shiny badge and quadrupal credits. I hope I am wrong. Thanks for your comment! ![]() ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by Dataman at Feb 16, 2012 4:17:33 AM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Crunching for Pedophilia LOL "join us, it's for the children!" ![]() One thing I forgot to mention in my initial post...D@H is not the first to leverage BOINC to engage in a commercial venture with the proceeds benefiting charity. I believe that precedent was set by Charity Engine. CE sells their volunteer network's computing resources to business & industry at below market rates, donates 50% of the net proceeds to their partner charities, and pays the remaining 50% out to volunteers through a lottery mechanism. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() I have no doubt that both D@H and CE have the best of intentions, but I've enough grey hairs on my head to have seen more than a few cases where mixing profit + charity didn't end well (even though everyone was convinced it was a great idea at the time). |
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