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JmBoullier
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Re: Sticking W.U.

Don't renew the benchmark values if there are no active projects that require a benchmark. Just for new work requests, an outdated benchmark is as good as a current one.

This way of seeing things, even if it could be accepted by Boinc devs (not too sure of that), would be valid only for machines which are dedicated to grid computing under Boinc. For all others the benchmarking can and does vary much depending on the "normal" work that the machine is doing. Therefore it can be considered reasonable to refresh it periodically, and every 5 days does not seem exaggerated in that respect.

Cheers. Jean.
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Re: Sticking W.U.

As my colleagues have said, this is a rare problem now. HPF2 suffered quite badly from it at one point.

More statistics would be useful. Are we seeing an increase in this problem, or is it just a coincidental report?

I would be interested to know whether the affected computers change power modes frequently. Do they hibernate, or go into sleep mode?

As you can imagine, this is categorised as a "hard" bug. We can't reproduce it on demand, and often it doesn't show up at all. This makes debugging very difficult.
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Sekerob
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Re: Sticking W.U.

Most many have enough ram these days to not have excessive disk i/o, so does LIM still have a valid right to be?

I think it has been explicitly mentioned some Boinc release notes ago that benchmarking is no longer causing the offloading of WUs but I cannot confirm it since I have always run with LIM ON.

But there is still the more frequent case of "repair" WUs in multicore machines. While it seems that a repair job with a reasonable shorter deadline rarely cause suspending the WU in progress in a single-core machine, it seems to be almost automatic in a quad, even if there is no real urgency. In that case LIM ON avoids losing much work from going back to the previous checkpoint of the suspended WU. Which can be much for some projects.

Cheers. Jean.

I'm positive that the HP switching keeps the interrupted job in memory for the remainder i.e. it gets pushed off into VM maybe but not out entirely. Time slicing always happens at checkpoints.... no need to keep it LIM for this reason, unless like many have ample and like to squeeze the 0/00% of performance.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Aug 9, 2008 1:46:04 PM]
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JmBoullier
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Re: Sticking W.U.

Most many have enough ram these days to not have excessive disk i/o, so does LIM still have a valid right to be?

My previous answer to this statement was more about the effect of Boinc offloading a WU completely. Regarding the amount of RAM and disk I/O now.

If you have enough RAM why not leave a temporarily inactive task in memory anyway? If RAM is really enough nothing particular will happen (my own case). If at some point some more RAM is necessary the system itself will take what is necessary (and not more) and when the WU will resume it will only have to reload those pages which had been dropped to the swap file. At worst that will be the same amount of disk I/O if it had to take all the memory space of the suspended task.

In fact excessive disk I/O because of insufficient RAM occurs only when active tasks need more RAM than available. Inactive tasks do not matter in this case. They have an effect only on the size of the necessary swap file.

Cheers. Jean.
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Sekerob
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Re: Sticking W.U.

It's why suspending project instead of suspending the job. Suspending the project unloads the job,
Hmmm ... it doesn't do that for any other project on my boxes, so it must be a special feature of either BOINC 6.x or WCG

Regrettably not specified in the BFS of jord/ageless if this is a behavioral change related to the version, but it does say there :
<leave_apps_in_memory> Leave applications and work units in memory when they are preempted. For multiple projects or CPDN as singular project. Work is held in the Page File, not in main memory.

Suspending BOINC or any project separately will purge all applications from memory.

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Aug 11, 2008 12:40:33 PM]
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Re: Sticking W.U.

That's not entirely accurate. I'll ask Jord about it and see if we can come up with a more accurate description.
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Sekerob
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Re: Sticking W.U.

When you have determined what's "accurate", please amend the related FAQ in Start Here, since what it says there is what reflects my own experience.
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JmBoullier
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Re: Sticking W.U.

I have done a test this evening with Boinc 5.10.45 under XP.
I have changed my local prefs to LIM OFF (unchecked the box), then I started TaskManager (TM) sorted on the process names.
When I snoozed Boinc from the SysTray icon the four DDDT WUs disappeared from TM. When I "unsnoozed" they resumed at their latest checkpoints.
Same result when I suspended Boinc from the Activity submenu of the Advanced view.
Same result again when I suspended WCG from the project tab.

I finally checked the box "Leave in memory..." again (although I never crunched for anything else than WCG), and now it is not just "because that does not hurt", it is because it is what it should be to minimize losses. smile

I had no repair job at this time. Next time I have one I shall check if the interrupted WU is offloaded when the high priority task starts. Probably yes, but it is better to make sure with a test

Cheers. Jean..
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Re: Sticking W.U.

Thanks, Jean. However, I think that much of the behaviour is well documented. The question was whether tasks are unloaded when the entire project is suspended and LIM is ON. Turns out the answer is no. With LIM on, tasks aren't evicted even if the entire BOINC is suspended.

So, it looks like Jord was doubly wrong. There is no distinction between physical memory and virtual memory from BOINC's viewpoint. The OS looks after moving things to the pagefile if needed.

And LIM seems to have no confusing exceptions.

So, it's all surprisingly simple!
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JmBoullier
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Re: Sticking W.U.

So, it looks like Jord was doubly wrong.

You are a little severe with Jord. smile
He is clearly wrong once about suspending the project wiith LIM ON, but he is only too talkative about what the system does with LIM ON. If all RAM is really needed by active processes the suspended task will really been kept "in memory", but only in the pagefile finally. But giving those details is probably only adding confusion for some people.
However, I think that much of the behaviour is well documented.

Here I think you are very indulgent, unless I have not found the right documentation.
The official wiki talks about applications "preempted" without a single explanation about what preemption is.
The unofficial wiki is not much better about "Leave in memory" but it has an article about preemption. And it is because I have reread it yesterday that I decided to run these tests. Because after reading this article my understanding was that preemption applied only to project switching, and not to any of the other circumstances where a task is suspended or interrupted.
Either this is true in Boinc terminology and the description of LIM is wrong since it does not apply only when switching projects.
Or preemption does not apply only to project switching and the descriptions of LIM here or there are not only cryptic but confusing too.

After testing/checking a few more things in the coming days I think I will go on with my intention to write my first FAQ about LIM, with normal words for normal people, hopefully. smile

Cheers. Jean.
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