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Hypernova
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Re: Building the 400 Teraflop Machine... a Work In [Permanent] Progress

Anyway, thats my logic and I'm sticking to it!


Excellent Movieman. You are a man of principles.
I think your logic holds for a few devices were the multiplying factor is small. I mean total absolute energy cost is not an issue and maximizing points can be the only objective. Even if you end up with a high energy bill/point still in absolute numbers it is acceptable.
When the number of devices increase to multiples of ten you need to strike a balance between max points per device and consumption.

I think it is a similar approach with very high speed transport. At low speed energy losses due to air resistance is small. With speed air resistance increases as the square of the speed. This means doubling the speed increase air resistance by 4. If you multiply speed by 10, resistance increases by 100. Now if your target is to carry the maximum possible number of passengers at the fastest possible speed, you will have less consumption per passenger with a High Speed Train (300 km/hr) then 300 cars running at the same speed. I leave it to you to match, speed, passengers, cars and train to the equivalent in term of devices, points, energy and frequency to make my example relevant. Have fun laughing
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[May 27, 2010 8:31:16 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
sk..
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Re: Building the 400 Teraflop Machine... a Work In [Permanent] Progress

I think your logic holds for a few devices were the multiplying factor is small. I mean total absolute energy cost is not an issue and maximizing points can be the only objective. Even if you end up with a high energy bill/point still in absolute numbers it is acceptable.
When the number of devices increase to multiples of ten you need to strike a balance between max points per device and consumption.

Yes, or add a few GPUs ($/£/Eoros) and striking a balance becomes rather more necessary than you would desire; they don’t have 2 extra power connectors for nothing!

I think it is a similar approach with very high speed transport. At low speed energy losses due to air resistance is small. With speed air resistance increases as the square of the speed. This means doubling the speed increase air resistance by 4. If you multiply speed by 10, resistance increases by 100.

Good analogy. This is why very fast planes fly very high, or dont go too far!

With CPUs it is a matter of looking at the initial outlay, the power consumption and the performance. This is why it is better to buy a good system and a fast CPU and fun it for a year or so, than buy an average system.
The fast system gets more credit per £/$/Euro overall; it flies higher.
It is also why I have to turn my average systems off, unless they have a useful GPU!
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Jack007
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Re: Building the 400 Teraflop Machine... a Work In [Permanent] Progress

I can see 60,000PPD coming from a single socket 6 core running at 4400-4500MHz..


With air cooled CPU?

And at 4'500 Mhz what kind of power consumption will we have? 300-350 Watts at wall socket. Global power consumption at those clocks will increase exponentially. What d'u think? thinking

No, for above app 4200mhz you do need water cooling.
Yes, power levels do increase but I can rationalize it this way:
It's one system producing that output and the energy needed to make all the parts for the second system wasn't needed.. biggrin
My SR2 rig draws app 620w at 4200MHz( on air) making over 100,000PPD
With a i7-920 based machine you'd need three of them to match that and I'd guess the three would draw more than 620W total.
Anyway, thats my logic and I'm sticking to it! biggrin

My I7 920 under load draws about 310 watts (290 without monitor)
That's with a high end video card in there water cooling, single
HD, a DVD writer. I'ma set up a I7 930 with smallest video card
I can find and do a test to see power consumption. Oh, and I
overclocked the 920 to 3.33 ghz (mem to 1333) that prob makes
a dif. but knowing you yours goes faster lol

Edit, wait you said 3 920s to get 100,000 ppd? i only get like
22,000 ish a day... you running yours at 4 ghz or somethin?
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Jack007 at May 29, 2010 2:55:15 AM]
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Jack007
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Re: Building the 400 Teraflop Machine... a Work In [Permanent] Progress

Ok, now that we are talking electricity...
been a long time since I did the math on power consumption,
I dont remember the formulas but how's this.
300 watts of power draw.
I'm assuming that's per hour?
so 3 plus hours for a kilowatt?
If so at 7 cents a kilowatt, that's 8 KW a day, 240 a month
is 16 dollars and change...
my 4 computers (1 a laptop, 1 a slow single core emachine
micro) so I'll guess 700 watts an hour is about 35 dollars a month.
1/3 my electric bill. that's crazy. I have the compact flourescents in most of the lights, except the tract lighting
which have a slightly dif base (that's 300 watts an hour on
them). I use LED lights (2 watts an hour) instead during
the day, but we cook every night and have a fridge and freezer going so I guess all things considered we aren't doing
badly (not complaining about price btw, just usage in gen).
When i go back to work looking at solar, I would like to offset
my electrical consumption, partially anyway. Oh we bought a
50" plasma... I had no idea they were 500plus watts. almost
never watch TV though, just use it for movies.
Sorry for off topic...
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sk..
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Re: Building the 400 Teraflop Machine... a Work In [Permanent] Progress

In a week or two when my GARLI tasks are finished (or aborted) I will be able to plug my Watt metre in and measure my OC'd i7+Fermi to see what it's costing me. On second thoughts, I'm not sure I want to know!
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Hypernova
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Re: Building the 400 Teraflop Machine... a Work In [Permanent] Progress

On second thoughts, I'm not sure I want to know!


You should. In this way you know what you really contribute in terms of financial effort. Even if you use already amortized older desktops say to 0$ value, energy is the vital fluid that make crunching possible. And that never stops, only piles up over time. The longer you crunch higher is your contribution.
I know what it costs me. I made all the detailed calculations as we have complicated energy prices in Switzerland, with day and night prices, week end prices, official holiday prices etc. We have also separate calculations between the energy production itself, the transmission costs , various taxes etc. The bill has become so complex that you need some time to read and understand what you really pay. But there is no competition yet. I am sure in a competing system I would have lower prices due to my high volume consumed. The only advantage I see is that my carbon footprint is very low. Swiss electrical energy is both from Hydro origin and Nuclear origin (about 50/50), both extremely low on carbon emission.
At the moment my energy costs are 416 US$/month or 5'000 US$/year. This with an average 240 watts power consumption per device.

Crunch, Crunch, Crunch, Crunch.........
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[Jun 2, 2010 8:26:53 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Hypernova
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Re: Building the 400 Teraflop Machine... a Work In [Permanent] Progress

Ahhh! At last it is clear for me. I had given up calculating these ratios months ago because I was going nowere. In fact I was starting from the rated i7 CPU performance published by Intel through their proprietary benchmarks which made everything very confusing.

Now I can finally relate credits points and TFlops.!!!!
So 100 Boinc Credits are 1 GFlop. Or 700 WCG points are 1 GFlop.


How wrong was all this. Check the following thread with many calculations:
https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/...ad,28798_offset,20#281483

Conclusion the global ratio is:

1 TFLOP = 8 WCG Points.

Period biggrin
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Sekerob
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Re: Building the 400 Teraflop Machine... a Work In [Permanent] Progress

Can you please take the questioning of the credit/point ratio to a different/own thread!

thanks

From Help:
In Advanced View, on the BOINC Manager, under Statistics, what do the figures on the y-axis represent?
The figures represent BOINC credits. A BOINC credit is equal to 7 Points on our website. Additional information on the BOINC Manager - Advanced view may be found here.

and
Why are points on the agent and the web different?
World Community Grid in the past ran two types of agents. A United Devices (UD Windows) agent and a BOINC (Windows/Linux/Mac) agent. Today, World Community Grid only runs the BOINC agent. Points contributed by both of the agents will be part of a members total on the website. However, only points contributed by BOINC agents will be shown on the BOINC agents. The points previously earned by a UD agent only appear on the website. Additionally, due to differences in how the agents computed points, BOINC points are multiplied by 7 when they are imported into the website. Thus if you earned 5 BOINC points, you will see 35 Website points.

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WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All!
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sk..
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Re: Building the 400 Teraflop Machine... a Work In [Permanent] Progress

This might move you some way towards your 400TF machine:

Take 1 of these motherboards,
or This one
Add an i7-980X, RAM, HDD, DVDRW...
and 7 of these Slim GTX470's,


- My modestly OC'd GTX470 averages about 58,500 credits per day at GPUGrid, so 7X58,500=409,500 Boinc Credits.

Of course you would need 2 or 3 very big PSUs!

Not sure what that comes to in terms of Tera Flops?
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by skgiven at Jun 7, 2010 12:29:13 AM]
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Hypernova
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Re: Building the 400 Teraflop Machine... a Work In [Permanent] Progress

skgiven, very easy to compute.
You say that you produce 58'000 credits at GPU Grid in one day. These correspond to 409'500 WCG points. This is due to the ratio of 7 that is applied between Boinc credits and WCG points.
If you want to know what that is in TFLOPS is easy.
One day has 86'400 seconds. So you produce:

409'500 / 86'400 = 4.7 WCG Points per second.

1 TFLOP = 8 WCG -----> 8/4.7 = 1.7 TFLOPS This is your crunching power.
Never mix TFLOP and TFLOPS. Just for the record in one day you have crunched a total number of:
409'500/8 = 51'187 TFLOP or rounded 51 PFLOP. That is exactely 51'187'000'000'000'0000 floating point operations.
Not bad for a little GPU. wink
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Hypernova at Jun 7, 2010 10:15:17 AM]
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