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kateiacy
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Re: Workunit runtime for Say No to Schistosoma has been increased by 40%

All this being said, there should still be a place for the casual cruncher with an older rig who maybe only gets 3 - 5 cpu hours a week. Even though their contribution is small they are still contributing. Thankfuly there are still projects with workunits which can be successfully crunched in this time frame. ...I believe as long as the present system has at least one project which works for these systems, no changes are necessary at this point. Just my two cents worth.
Cheers

That's my feeling exactly -- the existence of one or more sciences with short work units is adequate accommodation for the less capable crunching machines. There used to be several sciences like that -- HCMD2, C4CW, CFSW, and HCC come to mind. Most of those have now finished, and I hope we don't get to a point where there are no sciences with short WUs left.
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[Sep 25, 2012 12:00:02 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
rbotterb
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Re: Workunit runtime for Say No to Schistosoma has been increased by 40%

SekeRob - Have the PhotoBucket folks ever mentioned when they will get their stuff fixed so we can bring up your WSG Progress Charts again?
[Sep 25, 2012 1:05:11 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
rbotterb
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Re: Workunit runtime for Say No to Schistosoma has been increased by 40%

As for projects with short WUs, I suppose we can always hope as we move into the end of the year or into 2013, there will be a new project (or two) popping up for new crunching opportunities and hopefully one of them will be queuing up smaller WUs for us smaller crunchers to load up on.... biggrin
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astrolabe.
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Re: Workunit runtime for Say No to Schistosoma has been increased by 40%

Sgt Joe makes an important point:
If the total contributed by the smallest contributors is so small as to be below some arbitrary number (1%,.1% or .01%) the cost of providing very small short units exclusively to the slow systems may not be worth the cost.
So lets run some numbers. Yesterday we finished 3,199,212 hours of work on 771,136 WU for an average of 4.1 hours per WU on 234,816 devices or an average of 13.6 hours per computer per day.

Also, the top 100, just 1/10th of 1% of the crunchers, did 24% of the work. I call that getting the job done.

I see virtually no return on investment by introducing inefficiencies to WCG to cater to 3-5 hour/week contributors when the next new $450 Quad added to WCG can contribute 75+ hours per day.

Without names, one active member has returned 320+ WU in 83+ days of crunching over the last 6.5 years. Yesterday, I completed 712 WU in 23+ days of crunching (and I am only rank #436). Are we grateful for those 320+ WU. Absolutely. But not at any cost.
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cjslman
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Re: Workunit runtime for Say No to Schistosoma has been increased by 40%

astrolabe... If I read in between the lines of your note, it would seem that not crunching at your level (or the level of the 100 top contributors) is not beneficial to the WCG effort (hhhmm... I wonder where the other 76% of the work comes from?). So... two thoughts come to mind:

1) I think that the WU size should be tailored to the needs of the project to reach the proposed project goal/objective. If there are short WUs great... if there big WUs great.
2) Anybody that contributes CPU/GPU time to the WCG effort should be welcomed and THANKED for their contribution, being that contribution either small or big.

CJSL

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rbotterb
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Re: Workunit runtime for Say No to Schistosoma has been increased by 40%

astrolabe, point well taken that the top crunchers are doing a lion share of the work. Another view is with these large WUs, I would bet that one reason that active user you pointed out managed to do so much limited work may very well have been due to them passing back 'No Reply' after 'No Reply' and not getting many WUs to 'Valid'. Now from your view, such a user I suppose such a cruncher would best just go into the sunset never to see the light of day again, when the reality is that if that cruncher either was given WUs say 1/2 or 1/3 of current sizes or given more time to crunch their work, such a cruncher might very well increase the amount of work they complete by a non-trivial amount. Now the only way to see if such changes would work, someone who has access to more detailed data could easily take a closer look at the logs of a small sample of smaller crunchers and see if a change or two would make a decent improvment to the WUs workloads completed - basically a not too complex PCM analysis. If someone has access to the data but doesn't have the time to analyze it, I'll even offer my own volunteer time to look at this data and see if there is a equitable solution to this issue.
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jonnieb-uk
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Re: Workunit runtime for Say No to Schistosoma has been increased by 40%

There are a number of excellent points being made in this discussion which I think should be aired in the wider forum in their own thread, rather than hidden away in the SN2S Project thread.

For my own part I wonder whether those 6(?) projects that had their WU length increased, have experienced any decline in Daily RT totals as a result of crunchers switching to projects with shorter WUs? A rough survey of UK team crunching by Project, before and after the WU length increase, proved inconclusive - 3 Projects + and 3 Projects - though the decline in FAAH RT post WU length increase was notable. Maybe Sekerob with his vast databank has some thoughts on the matter?
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Re: Workunit runtime for Say No to Schistosoma has been increased by 40%

Something else is at work. We've had extensions before without impact [much bigger ones], causing an initial slight delay in validations during the transition period. Possibly the really big contributors have become more energy conscious [big contributors on 24/7 is big energy bill their comptroller will see]. There's one big one that nearly halved the years contribution, which started in Q1-12. Except for the charts info all can see showing the 6 month [eyeball] trend, with the little trend spark-lines on the dashboard to give an overview impression. Beyond that, my [free] time is limited.
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knreed
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Re: Workunit runtime for Say No to Schistosoma has been increased by 40%

So at the moment the daily runtime is still increasing due to the end of CFSW. As a result, we have seen a drop over the last week.

The positive aspect of that is that our daily results returned has dropped to around 750,000. We are looking at reducing the runtime of the projects where we can control the duration to shorten the workunits again. We will post when we make such a change.
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mikey
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Re: Workunit runtime for Say No to Schistosoma has been increased by 40%

All this being said, there should still be a place for the casual cruncher with an older rig who maybe only gets 3 - 5 cpu hours a week. Even though their contribution is small they are still contributing. Thankfuly there are still projects with workunits which can be successfully crunched in this time frame. ...I believe as long as the present system has at least one project which works for these systems, no changes are necessary at this point. Just my two cents worth.
Cheers


That's my feeling exactly -- the existence of one or more sciences with short work units is adequate accommodation for the less capable crunching machines. There used to be several sciences like that -- HCMD2, C4CW, CFSW, and HCC come to mind. Most of those have now finished, and I hope we don't get to a point where there are no sciences with short WUs left.


EXACTLY what I was thinking, maybe the Project could determine what processor a particular machine has and then issue units based on that, ie an Atom would get shorter running units than an i7 for instance. Maybe an Atom unit would be half the size of an i7's unit for example, or 1/4, 1/8 or whatever. Essentially exactly what we do now, the project has one big unit and split into many parts and we each crunch our part and then the project puts it back together into the big unit again for the result. Just split it smaller for less capable processors. Of course once split running that little bitty chunk on an i7 would be silly, so some Server programming would be needed to keep it all straight. Resends could be handled the same way OR sent to faster pc's just to finish them up.
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