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astrolabe.
Senior Cruncher Joined: May 9, 2011 Post Count: 496 Status: Offline |
Of course once split running that little bitty chunk on an i7 would be silly, so some Server programming would be needed to keep it all straight. Resends could be handled the same way OR sent to faster pc's just to finish them up. Lucky that we 50 programmers just sitting around with all the time in the world to re-write BOINC code so we can support crunchers that can provide 3-5 hours of time per week. You do realize that someone doing 5 hours per week has their computer on for 1 hour (at 80%) then turns it off for 25.5 hours then turns it on for 1 hour, etc. Better make sure we jump through hoops for those members. Where would the scientists be without their donation? This whole idea has gone way past being silly.I have a single core computer for the last 3+ years has crunched jobs up to 96 hours of crunch time only to give us a Valid result. Where's the fire? |
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rbotterb
Senior Cruncher United States Joined: Jul 21, 2005 Post Count: 401 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
So astrolabe, are you suggesting that all crunchers be held to some standard of work each week, and if that cruncher is too small or not up enough to produce a valid large WUs in a given week, that WCG should send them an e-mail letting them know they should 'buzz off' - in a polite PC sort of way while thanking them for the handfull of results they did do over the years?
![]() I do agree that WSG probably doesn't have enough programmers sitting on the sidelines to rewrite code, but I still suspect there could be a few adjustments made (like more than 10 days allowed to complete WUs), that can be done with little or no code changes made. As a side note, I suspect these same sort of discussions are occuring on financial blogs discussing the Wall Street need for small investors anymore versus HFT computers and whether small investors should buzz off too - same rational can be used in both forums.... |
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astrolabe.
Senior Cruncher Joined: May 9, 2011 Post Count: 496 Status: Offline |
No rotterb, I didn't say that. Nice try. Read my post. I did not blow off the small crunchers, you did. But I will say that I am not in favour of paying the cost of dividing a lane off of the freeway so that horseback riders can travel on the freeway. If they want to go on the freeway, then they get to play by the rules of today, not the rules that were in place when horses were the fastest mode of transportation.
You and many others make it sound so simple that someone can 'just tweak the system'. WCG DOES NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES. Plus, you are unable to make a determination whether the change you want can be made by WCG or it needs to be made by the people that ACTUALLY WRITE AND MAINTAIN BOINC, which is not the staff at WCG. The changes you suggest have zero impact on the daily hours crunched by WCG (in total). Those on horseback are free to ride whatever they want, as long as they want and as often as they want. But no one is going to build a service centre to supply horseshoes. Its not cost effective ps: I wish WCG had as much money as Wall Street. |
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astrolabe.
Senior Cruncher Joined: May 9, 2011 Post Count: 496 Status: Offline |
astrolabe... If I read in between the lines of your note, it would seem that not crunching at your level (or the level of the 100 top contributors) is not beneficial to the WCG effort Don't strain yourself, just read what I wrote. Besides, who is truly more important to WCG: someone who finished 150 days today or someone who gave us a total of 4 minutes of time today. Who would you devote your energy to?(hhhmm... I wonder where the other 76% of the work comes from?). I expect that about 7% come from the 40% of crunchers that contribute the least1) I think that the WU size should be tailored to the needs of the project to reach the proposed project goal/objective. If there are short WUs great... if there big WUs great Which means you want the Techs to decide what to do and leave it up to them. Apparently that is how the system works right now2) Anybody that contributes CPU/GPU time to the WCG effort should be welcomed and THANKED for their contribution, being that contribution either small or big I completely agree and it is too bad that doesn't happen for all. |
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rbotterb
Senior Cruncher United States Joined: Jul 21, 2005 Post Count: 401 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Astrolabe, it does appear the tech folks do have at least a little bit of time available to adjust WU sizes from time to time without a big programming effort on the BOINC side. Also, I've seen them adjust the number of days allowed to crunch a WUs before the 'No Reply' hits - it isn't always 10 days all the time for projects.
So the tech folks do have a few knobs to twist to balance things out a bit as needed. Only discussion here is whether it is possilble to keep the small crunchers in the game given the big changes in technology in the past couple years. Now where is all that horse poop I need to clean out of my laptop with my canned air..... ![]() |
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Ingleside
Veteran Cruncher Norway Joined: Nov 19, 2005 Post Count: 974 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Of course once split running that little bitty chunk on an i7 would be silly, so some Server programming would be needed to keep it all straight. Resends could be handled the same way OR sent to faster pc's just to finish them up. Lucky that we 50 programmers just sitting around with all the time in the world to re-write BOINC code so we can support crunchers that can provide 3-5 hours of time per week.If there's an easy way to generate multi-sized wu's, and this should be the fact for atleast some of WCG's projects since fairly resently many of the projects got longer expected cpu-times, handling-out small wu's to slow computers and larger wu's to fast computers doesn't need much programming... ... Since, some BOINC-projects already does this, by sending larger wu's to the fastest GPU's, and another project denies Nvidia to get some wu's based on the wu-parameters. Using similar options for cpu isn't a problem. Basically what's needed are: 1: A method to generate multiple-sized wu's. 2: A method to indicate the size to BOINC. This can be easy "hacks" like including a special string as part of the wu-name. 3: Configuring one or more plan-classes to send/not send work depending on CPU, wu-name, active_frac and so on. ![]() "I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might." |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hello Ingleside
Reference: Ingleside [Sep 28, 2012 6:12:46 AM] post Ready, able, and willing -- the three(3) elements needed for an action to happen. Mathematically, the expression takes the form: ready + able + willing = action. I can only hope that WCG is directed and now heading toward the 'willing' parts of things, and next engage the 'able' parts until WCG comes out with the 'ready' parts. Your supplied 'able' parts in combination with WCG's own 'able' parts may help pull WCG toward completing the 'willing' part of the action-equation sooner rather than later. Oh, and before I forget: If there is a will, there is a way... unless we are perfectly happy seeing our children wear adult-sized T-shirts... ![]() ; |
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NixChix
Veteran Cruncher United States Joined: Apr 29, 2007 Post Count: 1187 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
It is safe to say that that "big contributors" are those with a great many CPU cores under their userid. The number of active computers or cores is not published, or even the number of hours per week per computer for the "big contributors", so we (the average cruncher) just don't know. I.E. we are arguing without the needed facts. If we are going to compare, then we need to compare the results per computer, perhaps even per core, not per user id. I think that enlarging job sizes could affect a "big contributors" in a negative way as well, depending on the computer types and how often their computers run WCG. They could be set to only run at night.
----------------------------------------A "small contributor" may have the newest, most powerful computer, but only has one. If it only runs 5 hours a week, then that's all it's going to get done. Most of the posters on these forums don't fall into this category, so we are looking at the problem through an inherant bias. If we don't have all the needed facts, then we shouldn't discuss untill we do? [satire] If we are contemplating abandoning the 5 hrs/week cruncher, then we need to change the welcome message on the home page. ![]() If you have a server farm and your computers are on 24/7, download and install secure, free software that captures your farm's [/satire]Cheers ![]() ![]() |
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Jim1348
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 13, 2009 Post Count: 1066 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I am getting to this party late, but maybe the only thing that needs to be done (or can feasibly be done) is to rank the projects from "Easy" to "Hard" on the "Available Projects" list. Then the users can select what they want. If the easiest one is still too much for them, then that is too bad, but there is no point in jeopardizing the project for them. People lose sight of the fact that the purpose of WCG is to support the science, not for the science to give the crunchers a pastime.
(I do run three machines 24/7, but did not start out that way, and nobody else did either. We all started out small. But it has to be above some minimum, or there is no point to it.) |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Look on the official project stats page or on dashboard http://bit.ly/WCGPI1 for mean run times + history. If that does not make choice easy, I don't know what.
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