Index  | Recent Threads  | Unanswered Threads  | Who's Active  | Guidelines  | Search
 

Quick Go ยป
No member browsing this thread
Thread Status: Active
Total posts in this thread: 14
Posts: 14   Pages: 2   [ 1 2 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 8869 times and has 13 replies Next Thread
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Memory requirement for the MCM work units

I have set up an old computer to run MCM; cleaned the fan, adjusted cooling, put the computer at a place where the power can do as heating, fixed internet connection by setting up a bridged connection at a near-by computer.

But the unit don't download WU:s; the server complain and require 400 MB of "Memory". Note that while the API request installed memory modules, what the WU needs is address space or swap file memory. We also note that while a computer may have 4GB of installed memory, it can not be assumed that this memory in any way is available; a driver can easily simply reserve and lock 95% of this, and all Windows applications have to do with what is left.
(Similar discussion on CPU:s; a 4 CPU machine may not have 4 CPU:s "available".)

So, by confusion on definition of the concept of Memory, I cannot run MCM on the computer. I would like to see myself making a judgement of if the computer is suitable to run, or not.

So I now volunteer my computer.

Do you want it?
[Nov 21, 2013 6:23:44 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Memory requirement for the MCM work units

Hey TRNG98, Ilike the color of your badges.
[Nov 21, 2013 6:48:01 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Memory requirement for the MCM work units

With each work fetch, the scheduler files are transmitted to tell the server the latest configuration and allowed. At least set it to 100% when in use, to find what your OS will release to BOINC as usable. Not meeting those 'maximum possible' kills the request.

Whilst, scanning BOINCTasks history, mostly the models do not grow above 125 for the current batches. Unfortunately, predicting how the next task will evolve cannot be done,if only, so lowering the requirements does not seem an option. What you then get is borderline devices that crash out when they do get them, and a member coming all miffed to the forums voting and voting with feet if the desired solution cannot be offered.

Swapping 'in RAM' models out while the space is searchedby arunning tasks is likely going to kill the device's job efficiency. Could be emulated by any volunteer by lowering the allowed RAM after fetching MCMwork and see what happens. Very likely, surely, since BOINC knows the required headrooms, one or more tasks will be paused with "waiting for memory".

The last question can be answered with "if we could with confidence, we would, sorry." We've had during Beta established maximum ranges. In production they've been increased on occasion [like recently for CEP2]. Shrinking them... can't remember having seen that, only documentation being lowered to match a lower production setting.

edit: Don't know how/what you use the computer otherwise for and the physical limits [256MB/512MB RAM?], but PuppyLinux variants could be freeing up more, dual-booting from a USB stick. Dotch has a ready - minimalistic - kit including BOINC.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by Former Member at Nov 21, 2013 8:14:26 PM]
[Nov 21, 2013 6:59:11 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sgt.Joe
Ace Cruncher
USA
Joined: Jul 4, 2006
Post Count: 7660
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Memory requirement for the MCM work units

What are the specifications of the old computer you have set up?
Memory, Operating System, CPU, and what other tasks do you have the computer doing ?
Cheers
----------------------------------------
Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers*
[Nov 21, 2013 10:26:49 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
duanebong
Advanced Cruncher
Singapore
Joined: Apr 25, 2009
Post Count: 134
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Memory requirement for the MCM work units

Strange... I have a dual core laptop with 4GB RAM also. It is running 2 MCM tasks at the same time, and hasn't complained about not having enough memory.
----------------------------------------

[Nov 22, 2013 9:46:39 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
branjo
Master Cruncher
Slovakia
Joined: Jun 29, 2012
Post Count: 1892
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Memory requirement for the MCM work units

----------------------------------------

Crunching@Home since January 13 2000. Shrubbing@Home since January 5 2006

[Nov 22, 2013 10:14:40 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Memory requirement for the MCM work units

The computer run XP, and absolutely no other application. XP do not run any of its decorations. No application will launch while the BOINC runs. The computer have about 288MB installed RAM modules.

The problem is that the "Memory" that the WU needs is address space, or swappable memory; swap space. Next problem is that the Setting is of maximum memory; to guarantee that 100% of all WU:s can compute on this amount of allocated memory space; address space.
Finally, the Memory that is reported to BOINC is installed memory modules, which may or may not reflect the reality.

What I want is that the BOINC shall check on free available memory, that is swap space or address space, that shall be returned and compared.

The items compared is not of the same type; this is a software error, confusion on the Memory definition. Note that the maximum memory (the WU may or may not need) is also called minimum memory (that must hence be available).

My view is that this setting is just thought out, it has not been checked on old computers if a WU can really compute or not. Virtual memory is a complex thing. The relative speed of hard drive and CPU is also much different, compared to a modern fast PC. The amount of allowed hard drive activity is also something that is a policy better set by us at the computers.

I have had this issue previously in 2007 on FAAH-work units, where the 96MB computer stopped hard drive to idle after 3 minutes of hard drive inactivity. So much for that it should be "impossible"...

We arrive at the policy part; I am not allowed myself to investigate and decide, it is required to have installed 400MB RAM, and it is not checked if this is ever available for the WU or not.

I have never observed that a work unit should run low on the physical RAM with increased hard drive activity, making further use of the computer for such work units impossible or not recommended. Never, on any computer!

Earlier I downloaded WU:s using one computer with more RAM installed, and then computed these on a target computer that had illegal low RAM. Note that if the WU:s are installed, further Memory restrictions is by address space, and not installed RAM modules. The check of installed RAM modules is only when the project server send out the WU:s. Yes, computation of these was of course OK, with occasional hard-drive power-down due to swap file inactivity.

I'll search further on the net if I can find some application or tool, that can lie to the project server the short moment it shall decide if a WU shall be sent or not.
[Nov 22, 2013 10:20:46 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
sgoll
Advanced Cruncher
Joined: Oct 24, 2006
Post Count: 87
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Memory requirement for the MCM work units

Well, let me try to help you. First of all, 288 MB of memory is officially not enough to run MCM. So far, so bad. Second, on my system I see the MCM process consuming around 35 MB of real memory and around 80 MB of virtual memory. So your computer may be able to run MCM workunits.
Under linux we have a file called global_prefs_override.xml, under Windows you may have this file too when setting personal overrides for this system. When playing with the GUI to set some overrides this file may contain two lines with:

<ram_max_used_busy_pct>xxx.000000</ram_max_used_busy_pct>
<ram_max_used_idle_pct>xxx.000000</ram_max_used_idle_pct>

When you have enough pagingspace you can increase this values in the global_prefs_override.xml file to (let's say) 200.000000 which would result in a boinc that thinks it has around 572 MB of system memory.

Third ... this is from a linux system, I do not know if a windows system can be tricked this way. I was successfully using this setting on a 256 MB system and with 400 MB memory project. But have in mind that you cannot set this in the GUI, you must use an editor to change this values to a number greater than 100.000000. And don't forget to reload this overriding settings after you made this modification.

Let's try this setting and may be your system can take part on the MCM project.
Stephan
----------------------------------------

----------------------------------------
[Edit 3 times, last edit by sgoll at Nov 22, 2013 2:00:57 PM]
[Nov 22, 2013 1:28:17 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Memory requirement for the MCM work units

Absolutely hilarious. Set my win overrides to 180/200% for a 2GB system and on read, got this printed:

22/11/2013 15:46:08 | | max memory usage when active: 3683.12MB
22/11/2013 15:46:08 | | max memory usage when idle: 4092.36MB

Is the client sending the scheduler file with these values, or the real physical available to BOINC?

Whatever the outcome, do not expect this to ever get official endorsement. Get work this way and it going invalid/error. Not a WCG problem.
[Nov 22, 2013 2:55:39 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Memory requirement for the MCM work units

We are talking many 100:s of WU:s here, as months go by, that you big boys will certainly be able to compute on a fast computer if you have a week or so ...
I run now and see if I can start the unit!
[Nov 22, 2013 3:59:47 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Posts: 14   Pages: 2   [ 1 2 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread