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Panther-X
Cruncher Joined: Nov 12, 2013 Post Count: 27 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() |
Hello,
----------------------------------------Please note that I recently joined World Community Gird by setting it up on my Android smartphones: HTX One X+ (http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_one_x+-4976.php) Samsung Galaxy S3 (http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i9300_galaxy_s_iii-4238.php) For both phones, the settings are as follows: Max Battery Temp: 50C Max Usage: 100% CPU Cores: 4 Things started off pretty smooth and nice but I have noticed few issues and wondered about some aspects which I wanted to ask: 1) What exactly is the difference between points claimed and points credited? There are instances where I "claimed" more than being "credited" and vice-versa for valid results as shown below: http://s23.postimg.org/534zwzb6j/Claimed_VS_Credited.png 2) I have noticed that some of my completed tasks were either in "Pending" or "Project Backoff". What is the difference between the two terms? I tried rebooting my cell and even restarting the app but it didn't help. I knew I had internet connection so why the delay in transmitting the completed task as shown below: http://s2.postimg.org/jgik8ovbd/Pending_Backoff.png 3) On my HTX One X+, the issue is that despite my cell being plugged in, the battery drains. Since I have configured the limit to 90%, what happens is that it would crunch when the battery is at 90% but stop crunching when it is 89% so my battery charges to 90% and then resume. The first image shows this while the second image shows where I set the battery level to 50% and the charge being drained until crunching stops. Is this a known issue which will hopefully be fixed in an upcoming release? http://s11.postimg.org/7b1ed9u7n/Tooth_Saw_Battery_Usage.png http://s15.postimg.org/ltdwgtfd7/Battery_Drain.png 4) What is the purpose of "communication schedule"? Doesn't it communicate when a new task is downloaded or a finished task is uploaded? http://s15.postimg.org/5nm57wzkb/Communication.png 5) There is a huge difference in points. On my mobile app, I get 4,096 but when I log into the website, I get 29,123 which is a huge difference. Is there something wrong with my set-up or not? If not, than why the difference? 6) I joined WCG just over 10 days ago but on my Profile page, the Total Run Time is almost 3 times of that (0:034:13:00:44). How is this possible? 7) I have noticed that a few tasks of mine were invalid. It would be 4 or 3 or 7, depending on when I refreshed the page. From my end, I seem to have a majority of valid results with few invalid ones. Are some tasks expected to be invalid or are all tasks expected to be valid? If invalid tasks shouldn't happen, what am I doing wrong and is it possible to fix it by myself? 8) I have noticed that one or two tasks had "No response" as their status. What does that mean? 9) Since I have additional tasks automatically downloaded on my cell waiting to be crunched, am I being penalized for that or not? 10) I plan to format my cell in the future and I wouldn't like to waste the tasks being crunched. How do I successfully finish the current tasks and quit the app to avoid downloading any new tasks or discarding the current ones? I do plan to install BOINC once the cell is formatted. 11) I have read that the tasks for FightAIDS@Home are same for the mobile and a PC, I am curious as to how many points a PC gets per valid result. Is there a rough figure for an i7 processor? Thanks for reading my rather long post :) ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hello Panther-X,
Some of your questions are covered in the Forum within HELP (upper-right). Click Help - Points (Points is near the bottom under the Overview column.) https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/help/viewTopic.do?shortName=points 1) What exactly is the difference between points claimed and points credited? Your CPU claims points but the server adjusts this value and tries to grant everybody the same points for the same work. Always lots of controversy. 5) There is a huge difference in points. On my mobile app, I get 4,096 but when I log into the website, I get 29,123 which is a huge difference. WCG started with a non-BOINC system. So 7 WCG points = 1 BOINC credit. This is a historical artifact that will disappear someday. Most of our programming effort goes into running projects. 11) I have read that the tasks for FightAIDS@Home are same for the mobile and a PC, I am curious as to how many points a PC gets per valid result. I have an older PC that is slower than an i7. My last 3 validated FAHV units were granted 41.6, 45.1 and 39.4 WCG points. As stated in Help - Points, in theory a work unit is granted the same number of points no matter where it runs. 4) What is the purpose of "communication schedule"? Most people do not set this. It is intended to help people who get cheaper data rates at night or on the weekend. I still make my personal calls mostly after 8 PM. Old habits die hard. 2) I have noticed that some of my completed tasks were either in "Pending" or "Project Backoff". You are getting different Android messages than I get on my PC so my answer may be wrong. The recent changes on the server have caused some problems this month. The scheduler on the server seems to sometimes be overwhelmed. This has not happened to me for the last 2 days. When my computer tries to contact the scheduler and gets a back off message to defer communications until the scheduler is less busy, it will wait a short time, then try again. Each time the scheduler says it is still busy, it will wait a longer time before it tries again. After several work units are trapped in this loop, additional work units will not even try to communicate, but just wait until the earlier work units can communicate with the scheduler. I think that that is what "pending" is about. Maybe the staff have fixed the problem with the scheduler. Hope. 6) I joined WCG just over 10 days ago but on my Profile page, the Total Run Time is almost 3 times of that (0:034:13:00:44). How is this possible? Each core can contribute 1 day of computing each day. This leads to a topic related to 3) and 7). You have good equipment, but the current generation of Android mobile devices have often turned out to be unable to deliver quad-core performance consistently. Some of our members discovered that their ROM code disabled ("too much") computing. Each device is different, but I personally recommend using 1 or 2 cores on a quad-core mobile. See if that eliminates your "Invalid" results. 9) Since I have additional tasks automatically downloaded on my cell waiting to be crunched, am I being penalized for that or not? That is fine. I have my cache set to 0.1 days with no additional buffer. This downloads work units 2.4 hours before they will start running. This keeps me from downloading dozens of work units when the BOINC algorithm suddenly changes my "Duration Correction Factor" because a work unit terminates surprisingly early and BOINC decides I have a speedy supercomputer. I could change to 0.01 days and download a quarter of an hour before I need to, but that would be very trusting. What if the scheduler backs me off? 10) . . . . How do I successfully finish the current tasks and quit the app to avoid downloading any new tasks or discarding the current ones? You want to set the WCG Project to "No New Tasks". I am uncertain how to do this on an Android device. 3 taps on the lower right screen? Exit BOINC after you have finished all your downloaded work, but that is not supposed to be necessary. Once all your work is computed and sent back you can format, update and spindle the app as you like. "No Response"? Maybe related to the recent Scheduler problem. I am unfamiliar with the new Android messages. Lawrence |
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Coleslaw
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Mar 29, 2007 Post Count: 1343 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
10) it is simple to set the client to No New Tasks. Just touch the Projects tab and then touch the WCG project. The option to set it to No New Tasks are among the other options.
----------------------------------------Edit: I have the American version of the Galaxy S3 which is only 2 cores. It runs like a champ on both cores. But since yours is a different processor than mine, I can't contest on optimal settings for you. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() [Edit 2 times, last edit by Coleslaw at Nov 23, 2013 2:22:05 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
On Q1, WCG is the only BOINC project on server v700+ still maintaining this [as a legacy hack]. It's going away... end of that part of the confusion.
----------------------------------------If you want to know the raw credits a device is locally rated, peak performance [before the 7x points adjustment for another WCG legacy hack], run the benchmark, add up Whetstone+Dhrystone and divide [IIRC] by ~480 [think there's an Start Here FAQ discussing the calculation]. The result is the approximate credit a device 'claims' to be able to compute. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Nov 23, 2013 2:55:15 PM] |
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Coleslaw
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Mar 29, 2007 Post Count: 1343 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
3) This is well known that not all chargers are created equal. Out of the dozen or so chargers around my house, I have one or two that wont keep up with BOINC running. With that said, you may want to look into alternatives or cut your number of used cores.
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Panther-X
Cruncher Joined: Nov 12, 2013 Post Count: 27 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() |
Thanks for the replies fellows.
----------------------------------------lawrencehardin: 1) Thanks for the explanation. The server determines the points equally for all the same work. That's good I guess. Out of curiosity, is there a formula that the server uses to assign the final value? 5) Okay, it does make sense to concentrate on the advancement of the science. I read the points article that you linked and my initial impression was that it didn't apply to me since I was a new donor, thus didn't contribute with UD Windows. However, upon re-reading it, I got a better picture than before. 11) Okay, so while the points per task is the same, a faster system does more than a slower one so ends up with more completed tasks and thus, more points than a slower system. Good enough for me. Sorry to bother you but how long does it take? On my HTC, it takes roughly 12 hours per task and on my Samsung, takes roughly 24 hours. Both cells have the same exact usage. 4) Okay. That's weird since I don't remember doing any changes to it. Since I am connected to Wi-Fi 24/7, I guess it won't have any impact so will leave it as it is. 2) Yep, that makes sense to me and since then, I haven't seen it again. I do hope that the issue is permanently resolved. 6) Okay, so regardless of the speed of the core, each one contributes 1 day if crunched for 24 hours. Sounds weird to me since Core A with twice the speed of Core B would effectively be doing 2 days of work. Thanks for the tip, I have changed the number of CPUs from 4 to 3 on both devices and will see how many invalid results I get. BTW, is there any way to find out what these device names map to: android_27e8762e -> 3 invalid results android_5ffdb15f -> 2 invalid results If so, it would make it very easy for me to troubleshoot which mobile is getting more invalid results. Also, is it normal to get non-zero points for the invalid results? I have gotten between 16.1 and 20.0 in the last update. 9) Thanks for that. I guess it is best to leave at default since I am not getting penalized for it. Am I slowing down science by caching these tasks or not? If yes, then I would like to prevent it so how do I change the setting? Coleslaw 10) Thanks for the guidance! I found it along with the other options. 3) I didn't think about the chargers. As an experiment, I have switched the cables between my Samsung and HTC and will see what the results are. Moreover, i have shifted down from 4 to 3 CPUs in order to eliminate the invalid results. SekeRob 1) Okay, so in the future, it will be removed and the points will return back to "normal". Thanks for that. I did search and found that this link (https://boinc.berkeley.edu/flops.php) gives 404. Regarding the points to GigaFlops in the FAQs, which value of points is correct: 32289 / 700 = ~46.13 GigaFlops 4612 / 700 = ~6.59 GigaFlops (My guess is this one as it is just 2 cellphones) 12) When I changed the number of CPUs from 4 to 3, I expected that the task with the lowest completion percentage be stopped. My Samsung lived up to my expectations but not my HTC as shown below. Maybe this can be fixed in the next update: http://s11.postimg.org/5v9oneow3/Paused_Task.png ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by Panther-X at Nov 24, 2013 3:25:23 AM] |
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Coleslaw
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Mar 29, 2007 Post Count: 1343 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I wouldn't worry about caching work. There are plenty of PC's crunching an endless supply. The other systems aren't sitting idle so the work will get done one way or another and more work will be created. It is good to have a little buffer because down time does happen from time to time and that buffer guarantees your device isn't sitting idle waiting for things to come back up. I just wouldn't cache too much. WCG usually doesn't stay down for longer than a day when it does go down. If it is a planned outage, it will be announced and you can up your cache before hand.
----------------------------------------Edit: Oh, and welcome to WCG. If you are looking for a team, consider HardOCP. Our forum is here if you are interested. http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=32 We would be happy to help you get things going if you get stuck. ![]() Edit: I should have clarified that at this project and just a couple others back in the day they used HardOCP as the official team. Evidently there had been confusion in the teams earlier days. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() [Edit 2 times, last edit by Coleslaw at Nov 25, 2013 6:11:29 PM] |
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Coleslaw
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Mar 29, 2007 Post Count: 1343 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
To answer your question about project backoff, that is when the work units couldn't be uploaded. This doesn't mean it is necessarily something on your side. There has been mention of a time or two recently where people were having trouble reporting. Just give it some time and it works itself out. Several things can cause it to happen. Pending just means it is waiting to be sent, started, etc... where as project backoff means that it can't report in for the time being and is "backing off" or waiting for a while longer before making another attempt to report in. I hope that helps clear things up.
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Coleslaw
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Mar 29, 2007 Post Count: 1343 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
You also asked for some CPU numbers.... You may want to refer to some of the data Kevin (knreed) posted. He might even be able to get more numbers if requested. Have a look... https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/...hread=35305&offset=40
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Panther-X
Cruncher Joined: Nov 12, 2013 Post Count: 27 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() |
Thanks for the welcome and explanations provided, Coleslaw
----------------------------------------![]() I couldn't find any data posted by Kevin/knreed in that thread. I guess, I wouldn't be happy with the numbers when comparing my cell to a top-end i7 ![]() BTW, while I have already joined Crunching@EVGA, is it possible for me to set my Samsung to [H]ard|OCP while leaving my HTC on Crunching@EVGA? If so, how would that be done? ![]() |
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