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knreed
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Re: Work Available

Updated stats:

Average Generation: 80.6
Pace (average time to complete a generation): 4.25 days
timestamp_first_indexed generation num_units completed_last_day 
----------------------- ---------- --------- ------------------
2019-10-01 22:26:53 000
2019-10-30 18:58:54 001 6
2019-12-08 11:56:25 002
2020-01-12 02:02:34 003
2020-02-08 03:43:00 004
2020-02-24 06:27:42 005
2020-03-09 17:38:25 006
2020-03-17 08:44:19 007
2020-03-23 20:52:24 008
2020-04-01 14:39:46 009
2020-04-12 08:29:32 010
2020-04-21 02:41:36 011
2020-05-02 03:16:28 012
2020-05-10 13:29:40 013
2020-05-22 10:46:51 014
2020-06-02 21:07:48 015
2020-06-20 20:53:08 016
2020-07-01 12:31:12 017
2020-07-09 18:39:23 018
2020-07-18 16:08:31 019
2020-07-26 16:32:08 020
2020-08-08 15:15:22 021
2020-08-19 00:49:10 022
2020-08-24 07:02:09 023
2020-08-30 05:56:33 024
2020-09-04 11:35:58 025
2020-09-09 17:27:07 026
2020-09-15 06:25:11 027
2020-09-20 10:01:14 028
2020-09-25 22:07:49 029
2020-10-02 07:08:22 030
2020-10-07 17:55:57 031
2020-10-14 16:25:19 032
2020-10-18 20:05:40 033
2020-10-25 15:34:22 034
2020-10-31 22:55:26 035
2020-11-04 06:29:28 036
2020-11-12 06:33:47 037 1 2
2020-11-17 09:21:26 038 2
2020-11-24 13:47:28 039 2
2020-11-30 07:44:02 040 1
2020-12-07 20:20:00 041 2 1
2020-12-13 18:26:56 042 2 5
2020-12-20 00:33:11 043 7 1
2020-12-25 22:27:11 044 3 3
2021-01-01 07:57:34 045 6 2
2021-01-07 18:08:33 046 7 2
2021-01-15 02:41:00 047 5 4
2021-01-22 20:25:40 048 7 1
2021-01-28 10:53:04 049 3 1
2021-02-03 14:32:54 050 6 1
2021-02-09 03:20:45 051 4 2
2021-02-16 14:14:47 052 6 2
2021-02-22 01:22:20 053 9 5
2021-02-28 10:29:30 054 7 4
2021-03-06 18:23:14 055 7 2
2021-03-12 10:16:29 056 8 7
2021-03-17 08:30:15 057 12 5
2021-03-23 06:08:46 058 8 4
2021-03-29 22:39:10 059 7 3
2021-04-05 05:01:38 060 8 10
2021-04-10 21:09:07 061 19 2
2021-04-16 23:20:59 062 12 2
2021-04-22 07:50:06 063 9 2
2021-04-28 23:02:38 064 7 5
2021-05-04 04:45:55 065 11 6
2021-05-09 14:11:18 066 10 5
2021-05-16 14:55:41 067 16 6
2021-05-23 15:02:08 068 15 1
2021-05-26 06:43:43 069 19 5
2021-05-29 18:38:55 070 16 8
2021-06-03 15:46:15 071 25 4
2021-06-11 23:13:21 072 15 8
2021-06-15 11:54:58 073 22 7
2021-06-22 00:30:34 074 25 12
2021-06-27 11:56:43 075 43 17
2021-07-02 15:06:05 076 105 59
2021-07-08 20:49:12 077 447 236
2021-07-14 07:30:06 078 2000 880
2021-07-18 14:21:26 079 5171 1667
2021-07-20 23:37:16 080 7785 1915
2021-07-23 21:00:51 081 7780 1881
2021-07-27 02:27:09 082 6350 1250
2021-07-29 02:04:50 083 3445 584
2021-07-30 14:32:48 084 1517 263
2021-08-03 02:15:23 085 538 64
2021-08-05 08:06:31 086 71


I didn't like the idea of holding 2.5% of workunits before releasing the next leading generation just to keep the spread from getting too wide, so we are only holding 0.5% and will just let the spread be wider. Right now we are designating generations more than 7 behind the lead as stragglers (i.e. at the moment that is generations 78 and earlier). I will leave it here for the next week and see how things go. The next generation or two will arrive quickly but then it is should settle into a pace of about every 4.25 days.

One item of interest - the generations 80-85 (the lead generation) completed 23.0% of the units that were in them as of 24 hours ago while the generations 78 and earlier completed 34.5% of the units that were in them as of 24 hours ago. This is another way of looking how sending the stragglers to reliable hosts is able to complete them faster. Generation 79 completed 28.1% of its results .
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by knreed at Aug 6, 2021 1:45:26 PM]
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erich56
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Re: Work Available

any idea when new WUs will become available ?
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Acibant
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Re: Work Available

any idea when new WUs will become available ?
They received quite a few additional resources from participants after a recent news posting asking people to increase their commitment in terms of downloaded tasks. They have very little backlog, meaning that very soon after a unit of one generation is validated it goes right out again as a newer generation unit.

It's possible that if anyone has too large of a cache on their computer they could adjust that down to allow some to go to others, but beyond that it looks like most all work units will be in an assigned state from here on out. They could be more aggressive and limit more work units to machines that return quickly to make more available to that particular group but then that runs against their stated goal of not having work units waiting for available resources.
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Mike.Gibson
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Re: Work Available

ARP are readily available, but not necessarily immediately. Maybe in a few minutes.

Your machine is best restricted to half its threads on ARP and the rest on OPN & MCM, which are shorter duration projects. That way your machine will ask for more ARP whenever one of OPN/MCM units is uploaded.

As an example, say you have an 8 thread machine, restrict ARP to 4 threads and OPN & MCM to 2 each using app_config.xml and the cache in your profile to 5, 3 & 3 respectively. That way you have a spare waiting on each.

Just in case you run short of one of the projects, up one of OPN or MCM by 1 in app_config.xml.

Scale those figures up or down according to the threads on your machine.

Mike
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Re: Work Available

I found the wait to be as long as one hour in some instances. I would run a longer queue so that work will be available to the thread during the "drought". I have removed my machines from ARP1 due to the lack of work. Just like I predicted the lengthening distribution spread, I'm predicting that members will get tired of waiting for work and move to other projects ot sub-projects and then, in about 2 months, the work flow will drop under 15,000 WUs per day. Then they will be asking for more cores again. LIke they say, fool me once......
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Mike.Gibson
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Re: Work Available

With the 8 thread machine I used as an example, with a 24 hour CPU time per unit and 4 active units, the average time between updates of ARP units would be 6 hours. One spare unit would easily cover the 1 hour wait that you describe.

Scale that up to a 24 thread machine with 12 ARP units running and 8 hours CPU time per unit, you would have an average time between updates of ARP units of 40 minutes. There you would need to have a cache of 14 to cover your 1 hour wait.

So in my example for an 8 thread machine I suggested a cache of 5 ARP units, scaling that up for a 24 thread machine would give you a cache of 15 ARP units, so 3 spare which would take 2 hours to clear, double your maximum waiting time.

Where is the downtime in that? Given that the remaining threads would be on OPN and/or MCM, with spares, you have double protection from downtime.

The OPN/MCM units would also be creating frequent updates which would also call for ARP units, so you should have no problem.

Mike
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knreed
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Re: Work Available

I found the wait to be as long as one hour in some instances. I would run a longer queue so that work will be available to the thread during the "drought". I have removed my machines from ARP1 due to the lack of work. Just like I predicted the lengthening distribution spread, I'm predicting that members will get tired of waiting for work and move to other projects ot sub-projects and then, in about 2 months, the work flow will drop under 15,000 WUs per day. Then they will be asking for more cores again. LIke they say, fool me once......


I'm very confused as to why you think we fooled you.

One of the mistakes that I think volunteer computing has done is created this perception that work will continuously available to run and that there is some form of issue if work is intermittent. Most researchers don't operate this way. It is usually a much iterative process of run a bunch of work, analyze the data, have new ideas and run more work. However, many projects that were first attracted to volunteer computing needed much more computing power that they couldn't get elsewhere so they tended to have enormous needs for computing power and could run continuously for years. This is great and I'm happy that volunteer computing can meet that need. However, there is much larger class of research projects that have a need for a lot of computing - but not at a such a scale that they can provide continuous work. Right now in volunteer computing this tends to be viewed as a "problem" rather than the norm.

WCG with our multiple sub-projects and BOINC as a whole is designed to support this intermittent model. You can set a preferences for multiple projects and if there currently isn't work for one, you will get it from another. That is ok and great. If you think that our African Rainfall Project, ClimatePrediction.net and Einstein@Home are the worthy projects you want to run. Great! You client will rotate through each each BOINC project asking for work and sometimes you will get a job from that project and sometimes not but overall your client will continuously do work for one of them. The same thing could be achieved just within WCG. You could sign up for African Rainfall Project, Help Stop TB and Smash Childhood Cancer (which are all intermittent project) and then check the box for "If there is no work available for the project(s) I have selected above, please send me work from another project.". If there is work for one of your preferred projects, then you will get it. If not, you will get work from Mapping Cancer Markers or OpenPandemics and your client will continuously process work. I do not see why you should unsign up from African Rainfall Project just because work is not continuously available for it.

As far as the pace of the project. The biggest value to the researchers for the African Rainfall Project is in getting the full set of data for the project. The best way to measure how fast the project is running is by how fast the average generation is moving forward. Over the past two months with the work we have been doing on the backend to get the next generation back out as fast as possible as well as recruiting additional volunteers to help accelerate the project we have been able to reduce the time to move the average generation forward from 1 generation every 6 days down to 1 generation every 4.3 days. That is a huge acceleration in the project.

If we had 20,000 jobs sitting around waiting for a client to request them like we had 2 months ago, that would mean that about 1/3rd of the units on the project were just waiting around and not making progress which slows the project. I'm recording the size of jobs available to send every 20 minutes and it generally shows only 100-150 jobs ready to send which is close to as low as we can get. That means that often a request for work for African Rainfall Project will get a job, but not always. This is the way it needs to be to complete the project quickest and get the full data into the hands of the researchers. This has caused the distribution of units between generations to spread out some, but this only matters at the very end where the time between the first unit to reach its final generation and the last unit to reach its final generation might be a little bit longer (maybe 3-4 weeks longer). However, if we have removed many months from the overall length of the project (which we have) then this is a huge gain for the project.

Can you help me understand what it is that I don't understand about why you think we fooled you?
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by knreed at Aug 7, 2021 3:50:21 PM]
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Sgt.Joe
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Re: Work Available

Bravo Kevin. Well said and well explained. Sometimes volunteers can get quite myopic about their work and neither understand nor appreciate the work which goes on behind the scenes. Thank you for your hard work and explanations. I, for one, appreciate the information on the structure and operations of each project. Keep up the good work.
Cheers
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Sgt. Joe
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pwhidden
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Re: Work Available

My first unit from generation 086... ARP1_0011268_086_3 smile
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Mike.Gibson
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Re: Work Available

Thank you, Paul.

086 indicates we are at about 47.0%, but for this month I am again assuming 2 generations behind to allow for the stragglers, so 45.9%.

The latest interval is just 1.48856 days and the 10-interval average is down to 3.01736 days. The end date forecast would have been May 2022, but, based on Kevin Reed's data on the stragglers, I expect it to be about October or November 2022.

I would expect the next generation to start about 10 August.

Mike
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