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Re: Mental Priority of projects

Finally, rather than lamenting the fact that a few hundred thousand crunchers are hunting aliens or solving puzzles


SETI@Home is still the most popular BOINC project, taking up 57% of the BOINC time crunched (followed by Einstein@Home with 13.6%):

http://www.boincstats.com/stats/project_graph.php?pr=bo

I can understand crunching for Einstein@Home. SETI@Home users should devote their time elsewhere, at least for a while. It's the longest DC project running, millions of results returned, with zero items found. That crunch time is very valuable and could be used elsewhere.
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Re: Mental Priority of projects

millions of results returned, with zero items found. That crunch time is very valuable and could be used elsewhere.


I think SETI found an interesting quasar or something like that a while ago but that's beside the point. True, no aliens yet. Well, that tells me they need to look harder because I'm convinced there are aliens to be found. It's just that the univese is such a huge place and there are so many places to look. We need more sensitive search instruments with finer resolution so we can gather more data. Yes, that will require even more crunchers but the pay off will come when the aliens tell us how to cure AIDS.
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Re: Mental Priority of projects

I find the Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence(S.E.T.I) very interesting myself. I was one of the first 940 people who were originally devoted to the project in the 1998/1999 time frame when it was getting started.

I have talked with Seth Shostak of www.seti.org a few times now. They are trying to build a 360 dish array in Mountain View, California. So far lack of any good founding or enough donations has only produced about 10 working dishes.

I believe the search for S.E.T.I is more about finding a blue, water based planet near a star much like our own. Computer based spectrum analysis of the light through big telescopes is what I'm thinking rather then looking for intelligent radio signals which would be to weak to pick up anyway at large distances required. Nasa has what is called a "Terrestrial Planet Finder" team in which Zeta2 Reticuli was 1 of 100 initial targets and became very controversial when they thought a planet was found but determined it was star pulsation.

UFology names the star system known was "Zeta Reticuli". In particular they claim greys come from the star known as "Zeta2 Reticuli" which is a midlife sun with mass very similiar to our own. I however, would put my best bets in or near the "Orion Belt" star system. Many disagree with me on this. To confuse things stars may not be where they appear due to gravitational lenses affects..or a transparent bubble effect. This might be much like looking at a fish through the water and trying to hit with a spear. Maybe, S.E.T.I would be doing the same using radio telescopes?

After years of investigating and thinking I ran into more immediate productive projects like these. I realized there is more to gain in the near term future from finding cures or better treatments for diseases.

I still however, spend some time thinking about S.E.T.I and dreaming.
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Re: Mental Priority of projects

I find the Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence(S.E.T.I) very interesting myself. I was one of the first 940 people who were originally devoted to the project in the 1998/1999 time frame when it was getting started.

I have talked with Seth Shostak of www.seti.org a few times now. They are trying to build a 360 dish array in Mountain View, California. So far lack of any good founding or enough donations has only produced about 10 working dishes.

I believe the search for S.E.T.I is more about finding a blue, water based planet near a star much like our own. Computer based spectrum analysis of the light through big telescopes is what I'm thinking rather then looking for intelligent radio signals which would be to weak to pick up anyway at large distances required. Nasa has what is called a "Terrestrial Planet Finder" team in which Zeta2 Reticuli was 1 of 100 initial targets and became very controversial when they thought a planet was found but determined it was star pulsation.

UFology names the star system known was "Zeta Reticuli". In particular they claim greys come from the star known as "Zeta2 Reticuli" which is a midlife sun with mass very similiar to our own. I however, would put my best bets in or near the "Orion Belt" star system. Many disagree with me on this. To confuse things stars may not be where they appear due to gravitational lenses affects..or a transparent bubble effect. This might be much like looking at a fish through the water and trying to hit with a spear. Maybe, S.E.T.I would be doing the same using radio telescopes?

After years of investigating and thinking I ran into more immediate productive projects like these. I realized there is more to gain in the near term future from finding cures or better treatments for diseases.

I still however, spend some time thinking about S.E.T.I and dreaming.


Also, if you interested in finding the locations of stars system in the sky or what they look like. I would recommend "Starry Night" Ethusiast Edition whch can be had for low as 45 at someplace like Sam's Club. It is very realistic astronomy software.
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paoliniluis
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Re: Mental Priority of projects

If you think about it, nobody would be crunching FAAH today if it were not for the contributions of physicists, chemists and mathematicians. Those people gave us the transistor, large scale integrated circuits, high density hard drives, optical drives, 100MBPS ethernet, fiber optics, broadband internet and many other tools that FAAH needs. If you think DC projects like LHC, Einstein, Reisel Sieve and Prime are not worthy of CPU time then maybe you should think again. They may not be medical research but they may very well discover stuff that benefits medical research in a major way. Solving puzzles, for example, may seem like a silly pastime to some of us but there are some very complex and interesting mathematics behind puzzles and games, probably some very cool computing science too. It may seem silly on the surface but I suspect there may be worthwhile research going on behind the scenes. It is entirely possible that with their puzzles they may discover a new principle or refine an existing principle that eventually contributes to a breakthrough in AIDS research. It is entirely possible that CERN's Large Hadron Collider (LHC) will discover something about the fundamental structure of matter and energy that will allow transistors 100 times smaller, faster or cheaper so we'll have even more powerful computers with which to crunch FAAH.

Finally, rather than lamenting the fact that a few hundred thousand crunchers are hunting aliens or solving puzzles, I think we could get a lot more done if we stopped spending money on wars and used that money to buy a thousand Blue Genies for the scientists. Think of all the money that Bush spent in Iraq and figure how many Blue Genies that would have bought. Or how many programmers could have been hired to fix the deficiencies in BOINC, Rosetta, HPF2, etc.

Think also of all the dollars spent on oil that is/was way overpriced just because of wars. You see, it's not really the alien hunters that are slowing down FAAH it's people like president Bush.



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This post has been edited to comply with forum rules - nelsoc


Wow man! really really really you're the most intelligent american i've ever knew. If everyone could think like you do i'm pretty sure that things wouldn't be like this nowadays... congrats for you!
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Re: Mental Priority of projects

Thank you paolinluis but I am not american.
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Re: Mental Priority of projects

Well, that tells me they need to look harder because I'm convinced there are aliens to be found. It's just that the univese is such a huge place and there are so many places to look. We need more sensitive search instruments with finer resolution so we can gather more data. Yes, that will require even more crunchers but the pay off will come when the aliens tell us how to cure AIDS.


Sure there are probably intelligent aliens out there somewhere. They are most likely millions of light years away, thus nullifying any sort of real time communication.
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Re: Mental Priority of projects

Well, that tells me they need to look harder because I'm convinced there are aliens to be found. It's just that the univese is such a huge place and there are so many places to look. We need more sensitive search instruments with finer resolution so we can gather more data. Yes, that will require even more crunchers but the pay off will come when the aliens tell us how to cure AIDS.


Sure there are probably intelligent aliens out there somewhere. They are most likely millions of light years away, thus nullifying any sort of real time communication.


Nullified only if you assume c (the speed of light) is the limiting factor (maximum possible speed). It may not be. It may be possible for some things to travel faster than c, maybe just information carriers, maybe all things. They may be millions of light years away but the first message we receive may reveal to us methods and devices we can use to communicate across that vast distance in something close to real time. After that they may tell us how to traverse a million light years in less than a year. You may call that wishful thinking but escaping Earth's gravity was once considered wishful thinking too.
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Re: Mental Priority of projects

Nullified only if you assume c (the speed of light) is the limiting factor (maximum possible speed). It may not be. It may be possible for some things to travel faster than c, maybe just information carriers, maybe all things. They may be millions of light years away but the first message we receive may reveal to us methods and devices we can use to communicate across that vast distance in something close to real time. After that they may tell us how to traverse a million light years in less than a year. You may call that wishful thinking but escaping Earth's gravity was once considered wishful thinking too.


It's within the realm of possibility with really advanced technology (i.e. bending space/time, sending information via quantum particles, etc.)

Let's use Occam's Razor:

In short, when given two equally valid explanations for a phenomenon, one should embrace the less complicated formulation.


What is more likely to occur?

A. We find aliens, AND they are intelligent AND they can communicate with us at faster-than-light speeds AND they are able to find the cure for AIDS and tell us?

OR

B. Rigorous searching through all known chemical compounds through virtual screening discovers many potential candidates which bind to many different HIV proteins (protease, integrase, gp120, gp41, etc.)

A's resources should be devoted to a project with more realistic and attainable goals, IMHO.
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Re: Mental Priority of projects

Use Occam's Razor if you wish but it's a bit like shaving your face with a sewing machine. Occam's Raor, as your quote suggests, addresses how we should treat different explanations for the same observable phenomena. We are not trying to explain observable phenomena, we are looking for something we don't have. Your series of steps A and B are not 2 different explanations for the same phenomenon but rather waypoints along a search path. Nope, William of Ockham said nothing about searching for hidden treasure.

My brother-in-law is Inuit. Mike says that in the north you must always keep your eyes and ears open for Nanug, always. Mike says you must find Nanug before he finds you because Nanug fears nothing and does nothing but search for you. If he finds you before you find him then you will likely die. Could be true for aliens too.
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