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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18665 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
It's looking to me like the answer is to skip 5.8.8 and go straight to 5.8.9. After regressing back to 5.4.11, I crunched all non-FAAH WUs first. Next I set my "Connect to server" to 0.5. Upgraded to 5.8.9. Checked client_state.xml in BOINC directory and found this:
----------------------------------------<short_term_debt>0.000000</short_term_debt> <long_term_debt>0.000000</long_term_debt> <resource_share>100.000000</resource_share> <duration_correction_factor>1.357967</duration_correction_factor> As expected, no new work after starting. I had five FAAH WUs with TC of 9.5 hours each. That's 47.5 hours so I changed "Connect to server" to 2.0. Hit Update button to pick up change to prefs. Let communication deferral run out. No new work. Hi Update button. No new work. Ok, no real surprise there. Changed "Connect to server" to 2.5. Hit Update button to pick up change to perfs. Let communications deferral run out. BOINC initiated communication and downloaded four new WUs - 1 FAAH, 3 FCG. Changed "Connect to server" to 3.0. Repeated the process and it downloaded one new FAAH. Changed again to 3.5 (my original value before dropping to 0.5 prior to 5.8.9 install). Repeated the process and no new work. Manual Update request did not get any new work either. Only five new WUs today so not hitting the limit of 10 at one time and certainly not the daily limit. I have basically 74 hours of work now. With the new scheduler code and work fetch policy in 5.8.x, "connect to server" values beyond 3.0 may not be practical. Under most normal circumstances, they shouldn't be needed anyway. I'll be watching as WU's get crunched to see what happens the next time it gets work. |
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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18665 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Just got two new WU's downloaded and that's with "connect to server" at 3.5. That should be more than high enough for most normal conditions and was JUST enough for me to get thru the Christmas outage without going idle. Looks like if you crunch WCG under BOINC, you want to go straight to 5.8.9 and skip 5.8.8. In the seven hours I've been running it, my DCF has already dropped to 1.269735. The 5.8 level is clearly a major change from the 5.4 level. There will probably be other differences that will show up soon. 5.8.9 has run fine so far if you want to go ahead and download it but you can wait until it's "gold" too if you prefer.
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
Great and thanks kh for going thru the incremental buffer increase. A Trickle of work after filling up the queue is what many want so there is always a stock to bridge an Ice storm in Colorado. Been on 5.8.9 and yet to see a change after about 16 hours.....i just let it alone to allow the sub-routine - sounds like Starship Voyager - find its bearings.
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WCG
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cio_redulla
Advanced Cruncher Philippines Joined: Apr 24, 2006 Post Count: 130 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Great and thanks kh for going thru the incremental buffer increase. A Trickle of work after filling up the queue is what many want so there is always a stock to bridge an Ice storm in Colorado. Been on 5.8.9 and yet to see a change after about 16 hours.....i just let it alone to allow the sub-routine - sounds like Starship Voyager - find its bearings. ciao :(, the new BOINC sucks. I've switched to 5.8.8 and then there's 5.8.9. Come on! Why can't the new BOINC client just fetch work like 5.4.11? cio_redulla ![]() |
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winterM
Cruncher Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 42 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I switched back to 5.4.11. I have my 6 days of work units and when (not if) the BOINC server goes down, I will be able to continue.
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madmac
Advanced Cruncher England Joined: Dec 4, 2005 Post Count: 104 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I am using 5.8.8 and I have no problem so far. I wonder if it is because my cache is small 0.1 day and am running two Boinc projects.
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
The issue seems to be exponential with the size of the buffer and the high variability of lengths of the work units within the WCG going between 1.25 hours and 8.5 hours and more. At 0.1 (new default profile is now 0.3), BOINC will simply work on the basis of processing on a WU and fetching a new one towards middle latter part of the present job. Even on a multi project that will not constitute a problem. If working on WCG only, and for that matter any single project client, a longer outage can cause a client running dry, which is why the 0.1 was increased as default for new clients to 0.3.
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WCG
----------------------------------------Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! [Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Feb 8, 2007 6:12:20 PM] |
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Ingleside
Veteran Cruncher Norway Joined: Nov 19, 2005 Post Count: 974 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
:(, the new BOINC sucks. I've switched to 5.8.8 and then there's 5.8.9. Come on! Why can't the new BOINC client just fetch work like 5.4.11? Well, if the purpose of high cache-setting is to handle Unexpected Outages, it's always been a bad idea to set cache-size larger than 1/2 deadline. Why? Because when project goes down, all work in your buffer is generally N days old already. Meaning, can setup this table: Cache-size - How long till deadline with 7-days deadline 0.1 days - 6.9 days => handle 0.1 days outage. 1 day - 6 days => handle 1 days outage. 2 days - 5 days => handle 2 days outage. 3 days - 4 days => handle 3 days outage. 3.5 days - 3.5 days => handle 3.5 days outage. 4 days - 3 days => handle 3 days outage. 5 days - 2 days => handle 2 days outage. 6 days - 1 day => handle 1 day outage. Granted, WCG gives you an extra 2 days to return work past the deadline, but AFAIK no other projects does this, and in some even 1 second after deadline means you've just wasted whatever cpu-time used on this wu. So, generally, with a 7-day deadline, both 1-day cache-setting and 6 days cache-setting can handle 1 day unexpected outage. The 5 extra days with the larger cache-size is generally just wasted cpu-cycles that won't be used for anything. Setting up a similar table for v5.8.xx, you get, with default 1 hour switch-interwall: Cache-size set by user - actual cache-size in project with 7-days deadline: 0.1 days (BOINC default) - 0.1 days. 0.3 days (WCG default) - 0.3 days. 1 day - 1 day 2 days - 2 days 2.5 days - 2.5 days 3 days - 2.96 days 3.5 days - 2.46 days 4 days - 1.96 days 5 days - 0.96 days 6 days - zero days. To have a little extra safety, uses 90% of computational deadline, meaning in practice the max cache-size is 2.82 days. If atleast 1 wu in a project is in deadline-trouble, all work-requests to this project is blocked, until not in deadline-trouble any longer, or atleast 1 cpu is idle. If you're attached to other projects they can continue give you more work. Basically, v5.8.xx just enforces the fact it's a bad idea to set cache-size larger than 1/2 the deadline, but adds an extra safety-margin on top of this so it's a little less than 1/2 the deadline. ![]() "I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might." [Edit 1 times, last edit by Ingleside at Feb 8, 2007 6:28:31 PM] |
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winterM
Cruncher Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 42 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I will try that. I went back to 5.4.11 and now have 6 days worth of work units. I changed the option to 2.5 days. I will know in 5 days. Thanks for the info.
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
For that Cio, you need to study the new Work Fetch Policy or WFP in depth. It's much smarter, but may still be needing some tweaks to not out-smart itself. Ingleside posted some logic why it gets worse the larger the buffer which has an in-build safety %.
----------------------------------------http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread?thread=11582#86205 I've got it on 2.5 days which even in the worst scenario has never been that long on the WCG downtime front.
WCG
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