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Movieman
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Re: BOINC credits vs WGC

Credits don't cost WCG anything so a slight change in policy ..**.. would greatly increase the numbers crunching and doing this fantastic work.
That would not cost anything but credibility.
And you can be certain that grids which have already not hesitated to not follow Berkeley's recommendations on credit rates for attracting racers would not hesitate to push their rates again to stay ahead of that competition. So where would that end
?

Cheers. Jean.

** Have removed the irrelevant example. As Sekerob has already explained WCG points are derived from BOINC credits, not the opposite.

Jean,
We don't always agree in how we see things but I agree with you 100% on this. I'd also like to toss in that any "midway" change in the credit system in a project skews the entire standings by whatever the percentage of change is.
Now I'm one of those people who falls somewhere in the middle of how people are seen: IE: Teams chasing points or people just doing the science.
I'm on a team and yes, we compete but the projects worthiness FAR outweighs any points system to me and I expect to most serious crunchers but at the same time you need a steady, understood and fair points system in effect.
I would strongly caution against changing the awards system this far into the project.
As to BOINC cross project compatibility I could care less.
If I wanted maximum points I wouldn't be here I'd be doing some project that gave you 2000 BOINC points per hour per core for counting tiddlywinks or something just as useless.
What we do here is important and we do this work by choice, not for numbers.
Competition is fun and I beleive a points system is an integral part of any DC project as it gives many motivations to people.
Nothing more boring than sitting watching a PC do it's work.
Would you beleive that my almost 80 year old Mother got involved when XS did our little supercomputer deal in May with her stock AMD 940 system and I see her checking the stats daily to see how close she is to her first million WCG points.
That's God's truth and a howl to see.
Now she wants me to build her a "better machine" so it will do more per day.. laughing
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[Jun 23, 2010 7:39:54 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
SNURK
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Re: BOINC credits vs WGC

Someone is about to proove we are at a total loss with the current Boinc credit system.
Over at Boincstats I see that someone is about to take over the number 1 spot of all time total Boinc credit.
Interestingly this is done by racking up 9 million points per day with just 11 hosts. not talking
LOL
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[Jun 23, 2010 12:27:16 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
bieberj
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Re: BOINC credits vs WGC

I am wondering if we should have two different type of BOINC credit ratings - one that is done using standard processors and one that is done using the kind we currenly don't have any application that supports GPU. If these were kept separate, we could see a fairer ranking scores and comparision among those that don't use GPU.
[Jun 23, 2010 2:49:10 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Randzo
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Re: BOINC credits vs WGC

Agree with 2 things.
1. Science is much more important than numbers.
I wouldnt calculate number of atoms in apple or something really useless and that project could give me milions of points per second.
I like badges they remind me what sciences was i fighting for.
2. CPU and GPU points should be separated. They are too different.
We are counting apples with pears.
[Jun 23, 2010 3:39:23 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Hypernova
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Re: BOINC credits vs WGC

2. CPU and GPU points should be separated. They are too different.


Randzo I do agree with all what you said except for this point.
It is the same as saying that we should have separate points between an old Pentium II system and a quad socket based on four octocore intel cpu's. One will do a hundred points and the other 250'000 points per day. You have data centers contributing and those who have just one cpu with one core. CPU and GPU crunch all the same. The quantity crunched is different that is all.
What counts is that everybody does contribute and crunches with what he can do. It is the combined mass effect that counts, this is why each unit contributed is important. Just to give you an example yesterday the top contributor did 7.6 Million points. And to do that you need hundreds of CPu's, many kilowatts etc. etc.
But if we look at the WCG grid daily total for yesterday we have 287 Million points. So the top contributor did just 2.6%. The aggregate contribution of the top 50 is about 20%. It is the mass effect of the thousands of smaller, slower machines that did 80% of the contribution. This means that their contribution is vital to finish the projects in an acceptable timeframe.
Forget the points, CPU GPU. All the same. Crunch Crunch wink
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[Jun 24, 2010 9:26:52 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Randzo
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Re: BOINC credits vs WGC

Old pentium is just a smaller apple than Octocore pentium but GPU is pear anyway. To be totally honest the points should be time adjusted. Because its like with money. Inflation rate. 1000 points before 10 years are more tahn 1000 points today and more than 1000 in 2020.
But i am not proposing that its just an utopic and not realistic idea.

I am just happy that I can contribute to very important reserach which benefits all the people in the world and I can be part of something really big and useful.
I dont`t care about points at all.
I like badges they reminds all the project and my little contribution to them.
I am just small happy chruncher. wink
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Randzo at Jun 24, 2010 5:34:06 PM]
[Jun 24, 2010 5:32:28 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Tapiot
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Re: BOINC credits vs WGC


Forget the points, CPU GPU. All the same. Crunch Crunch wink


I agree that. :-)
[Jun 24, 2010 5:34:03 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: BOINC credits vs WGC

Someone is about to proove we are at a total loss with the current Boinc credit system.
Over at Boincstats I see that someone is about to take over the number 1 spot of all time total Boinc credit.
Interestingly this is done by racking up 9 million points per day with just 11 hosts. not talking
LOL


And how many 5970's are inside per host do you think? That guy's machines consumes 700-800w an hour per host crunching 24/7 all inside his garage. As we all know, electricity is not free. How much do you think is his power bill per month?

We all have our goals why we crunch, some of us crunch because we are interested on the project itself, while some crunch as a form of hobby.

What about him? Even if he makes a 100x more than his credit per day right now, It wouldn't bother me at all. He can afford to buy and run all those hardware, while I cant. As what i've seen on some of his posts in many forums, he's a good guy in my book.

If you look me up in boincstats, 70% of my credits are from Collatz. While I crunch for WCG (mainly for the cancer projects) and MW for the science, I crunch for Collatz for fun and DNETC as a backup whenever Collatz or MW goes down.

When did boinc really become fair on credits? CPU and GPU is like crunching with a pentium 1 against crunching with an I7. Why intel cpus gets more credit than amd cpus while more power efficient? Why nvidia double precision sucks compared to ati's? Why cows can't fly?
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by Former Member at Jun 25, 2010 1:03:01 PM]
[Jun 25, 2010 12:44:25 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
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Re: BOINC credits vs WGC

[OT]The cows read all works of George Orwell and thought to themselves that they had not seen pigs do it either ;-) [/OT]
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[Jun 25, 2010 2:32:25 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
mikey
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Re: BOINC credits vs WGC

Points should be rigidly set by Boinc, and anyone that starts to grant more credit should not be allowed to use Boinc. The present situation negates the credibility of Boinc and those that use it.


And this would be helpful to the Projects how? To mandate that your project be exactly the same as my project is not how we get more Boinc projects on line and working. Sure your way will work, if we all wanted to crunch looking for little green men, but we don't all want to do that, at least not anymore. To give a guideline, which is what is done now, is the best way of ensuring many Boinc projects for many years to come. Some projects want the 'credibility' of having the most users, therefore they must grant more credits than a project that gets users thru their Scientific research. Some projects just cannot handle millions of people coming to them, so they grant fewer credits and keep their base small and manageable. Boinc is kind of like you and I, different but still both human.
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[Jun 26, 2010 10:35:26 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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