First, thank you all who responded directly to me and especially to astrolab for taking the time to pull/find all those numbers relating to the project. It really is appreciated. Second, I'm here for the long haul. Getting the science crunched is the most important thing. Getting/not getting a badge really doesn't matter to me in the end. True they are nice to have as a public example that I have been donating lots of time/energy, but they aren't the real reason that I'm here. That said however, I've done a lot of work over the years with volunteer groups/labor (20 with the Boy Scouts, 5 with a local library, etc.) and I wanted to give my thoughts/impressions as it relates to what I see here at WCG. Granted none of that is of the size/scale of WCG but many of the issues are similar.

In the end, the bottom line is that the crunching is all about the science. Of that you will get no argument from me. My point was that the interval between Point A (the start) and Point B (the end result) needs to be looked at/thought about. Especially that space in time right around Point A...

None of the projects here are equal to the Manhattan Project of WW2 or trying to come up with something to prevent an alien race from taking over the planet where speed is the number one priority. They are all important to humanity but getting them done isn't urgent. An extra week/month or two really won't make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. If the complaints/seeming ill will generated by this project were transferred to those above groups that I mentioned, it would be seen as a huge disaster that needed to be looked at immediately (if for no other reason than to try to prevent a similar response moving forward into the future).

With volunteers you need to find a way to keep the vast majority of them, if not happy, at least willing to keep working for you. In this particular case it seems that the way to do that would be to get more of them involved in the crunching process. If, for example, you have a large group of people complaining that they've been trying for weeks to get any work at all & coming up empty - telling those people (to prove that there are units going out) that one person got 13,337 work units yesterday & that another one person has crunched 400,110 work units over the life of the project, it seems like a slap in the face to them (NOT that you did so astrolab, you just provided the information). The impression given, false as it may be, is that their offer of time/computing power is of no value to WCG. It doesn't matter if that is completely wrong, if people are being given the impression in their mind that their effort isn't really wanted then they might go somewhere where it is.

My thought/suggestion/opinion is that in the future WCG techs must take a little more time on the front end to devise a way that the work units get spread out to more people. It is not for the benefit of the new project in question, but rather to keep those people involved in other WCG projects while waiting for their new project work units to come around. If, instead of having one fast machine crunch 13,000 work units one day, you had that one machine crunch 10,000 & spread the other 3000 around to 300-600 people who were begging for even ONE work unit, the final ending date of the project may be pushed back by a few days but the number of people complaining would be drastically reduced.

I know that the techs aren't intentionally trying to make people angry, they are just trying to get the project done in the quickest way possible (certainly a worthy goal). But if it gets done several weeks sooner at the cost of angering/losing a group of volunteers (who in the future, more than likely, will be upgrading their computers to a faster/better one) is it really worth it? All I'm asking/suggesting is that prior to any future project's release, some sort of protocol is in place to "spread the wealth" as it were.

Anyway, back to finish up the 30 days needed to bump up my HFCC badge while hoping to get work unit #3 through ? of DDD2

Perception is reality. This is a public project with volunteers. The hardest job I have is working with volunteers. That is because volunteers have many choices to donate their time all of which are benefitial. Volunteers first do it to make a difference but also like to think, whether true or not, they are part of the project not disposable. Technical people often see a technical issue and try to solve it quickly which is great but is sometimes not with good PR effects. New projects generate excitment which can quickly lead to frustration and anger if they feel they are being left out. So Greg has valid points. Therefor to maximize the end result we need as many volunteers contributing as much as possible therefor happy campers. Perhaps one solution would be to have a public relations person to help minimize issues like with DDD-T II. I dislike beurocracy but I like to win and fewer crunchers does not lead in my humble opinion to winning. If you look at the total number of those who signed up for WCG and compare with those who actually did and still do contribute it is very large. What happened? Granted others went to other projects but how many were turned off before they really became "connected" to our purpose?
Can we get them back? If so can we keep them? Good PR will help!

Hello WCG.

Reference:
The root post by Legrandpiou [Mar 31, 2010 1:49:19 AM] up to the post by judson Somerville MD [Apr 4, 2010 4:51:26 AM]

Greetings everyone.

Background
--------------
Let me start off by using a quote from Kathleen Norris:http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_blog/Kathleen.Norris.Quote.4957

And also.. http://mttlg.net/stuff/sufficiency.html

The problem
---------------
Now, to be guided by the ideas there in dealing with the issue at hand here in WCG..

Definition of the 'conflict' as I see it:
Some crunchers want DDDT2 WUs regardless of the reality that WCG cannot, as yet, produce the said WUs in numbers that would make those crunchers say 'I'm happy'.

judson Somerville MD:
What would you have WCG do in light of the statement of JmBoullier that ".. nobody has any chance when there are none at all on distribution .."? Do you really believe that perception is reality? To quote a line from the 'Matrix' movie, "What if you had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you are able to wake up from that dream, how would know the difference between the real world and the dream world?" My answer is easy: I am Neo.. Just kidding . Seriously now, as adults and an educated one at that, we know better than allowing perception to equate to reality. Intelligent people can discern reality from perception even from any statements from a PR firm, specially from a PR firm.

Greg L.:
I'm willing to bet that WCG would never dare to want to lose any cruncher. Your intentions and motivations for WCG, as I see it, are all fine. Any newly-launched endeavor is bound to have problems, DDDT2's launch proved to be NOT an exception. Someday, WCG will make launching projects a no-brainer and I'm willing to bet on that too. Until that time, I understand that you want or need to have something for your computer to chew on, but please bear with WCG if you absolutely want to have DDDT2 WUs for your crunching. For the meantime, there are other WCG project WUs with very little if any problems with them that you can opt to contribute in. If it would please you, I opted to NOT get any DDDT2 WUs, so there goes one who would not even compete with all those who view getting a DDDT2 as a must-have.

WCG:
Perhaps we need an advisory to keep crunchers informed (by the hour?) regarding what is being done to address the issue of no DDDT2 WUs. Is there one somewhere in WCG? The 'Known Issues' section under the 'Official Messages' banner seems like a good place to post such an advisory.

Good day
;

andzgrid

I agee with your statements also. I am not as educated as most here; but I do wish they would put the science before themselves.

Ty for your kind statement in regards to mine..

When I saw a thread with discussions like the above ones, combined with the general disappointment of many crunchers in WCG with this projects and others ones, I really put in check the way used by WCG to change rules many times, to acomodate situations which many times don't appear for crunchers be an issues, like in this project (please be aware that's just my humble opinion shared). It happened before in others projects, and I guess that WCG really need pay attention on that to avoid destroys WCG's reputation created along many years.

When new rules are created, and just benefit some individuals inside the large WCG crunchers group, aka reliables powerful systems owners (including me !), I really feel that something appear be distorced when we take a look at one of WCG main messages that is provide a fair enviroment to all world crunchers participate and donate efforts to help the humanity in special selected projects, without restrictions and discriminations of any kind (I think that it is a mantra inside IBM) based on any kind of classification. So, when WCG classify unreliable machines (and automatically it owners) to don't receive some kinds of WU's, I guess that something are wrong or distorced, despite of the benefits for the project or whatever.

I'm just share my thougts and guess about it.