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Blurf
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Re: Help Conquer Cancer September 2011 Update

Great news...I have a machine with an ATI card and another with a Nvidia. Either way I should be good to go.
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[Nov 17, 2011 10:41:03 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Bearcat
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Re: Help Conquer Cancer September 2011 Update

My ATI 6950 is begging for some work. Bring it on!
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[Nov 18, 2011 2:22:21 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
knreed
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Re: Help Conquer Cancer September 2011 Update

But I was wondering, will there be disconnect between runtime (and therefore badges awarded) and points awarded for these GPU work units vs the equivalent CPU workunits? In other words, if it takes a CPU thread 6hrs to complete a task - but it only takes a GPU 6min to complete the "same" task - will the points awarded be the same? What about runtime?

It seems to me that if there's any discrepancies between CPU/GPU on runtime, it might throw the whole badging system out of whack (or am I missing something?)


HCC1 will not see quite that dramatic of performance improvement. It is faster though.

The goal of credit is represent the amount of 'research' done. Thus if a given workunit should result in the 15 credits - then regardless of the platform it is run on (linux, windows, gpu, mac) it should be awarded 15 credits. Credits purpose is to show how much 'compute capability' a user has contributed to World Community Grid.

For GPU processes, we will utilize the 'elapsed time' metric for how much 'runtime' is added to their statistics for the purposes of earning badges. If a user has a graphics card that is able to run the workunits, that card will then about 24 hours of time per day (assuming it is fully utilized for running research applications).
[Nov 18, 2011 4:16:52 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
sk..
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Re: Help Conquer Cancer September 2011 Update

What are you going to do about anonymous platforms running say 2 or 3 tasks on the same GPU?
What are you going to do about all those daemon/service installs?

- One days work from a GTX580 >> one days work on an i7-920, but the i7 is perceived to have 8 cores by Boinc, so will get 8days tallied against Total Run Time.
Why don't you use SM count (16)? At least that way the comparison is not completely ridiculous:
GTX590 (32), GTX580 (16) GTX570 (15), GTX560 Ti (8), GTX560 (7), GTX550 Ti (4)...
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by skgiven at Nov 18, 2011 5:00:43 PM]
[Nov 18, 2011 4:49:42 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Help Conquer Cancer September 2011 Update

Maybe you could share what you know already and what BOINC shows if multiple jobs run on 1 card, as an education for the WCG volunteers to whom GPU crunching is entirely new.

Ah, an edit while typing: Whether there's a duo or an octo CPU, BOINC as said records the elapsed time for the GPU job. 1 job, 1 elapsed time recording in BOINC, so I understand from knreed's post.

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Nov 18, 2011 5:31:36 PM]
[Nov 18, 2011 5:22:56 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Help Conquer Cancer September 2011 Update

The goal of credit is represent the amount of 'research' done. Thus if a given workunit should result in the 15 credits - then regardless of the platform it is run on (linux, windows, gpu, mac) it should be awarded 15 credits. Credits purpose is to show how much 'compute capability' a user has contributed to World Community Grid.

For GPU processes, we will utilize the 'elapsed time' metric for how much 'runtime' is added to their statistics for the purposes of earning badges. If a user has a graphics card that is able to run the workunits, that card will then about 24 hours of time per day (assuming it is fully utilized for running research applications).

Thanks for your reply, knreed! I'm aware of what WCG credits represent...I guess skgiven's post more succinctly gets at what I was really asking.

So, what you're saying is that while a single 8-threaded CPU will get ~8 days runtime per 24hr period, a single GPU will only get 1 day runtime per 24hrs - while producing 6-60x the output? I'm ok with that, but if it's a simple programming adjustment to implement skgiven's "SM count" approach, I think that would provide more consistency & "fairness" (for lack of a better word) between CPU points/runtime and GPU points/runtime.

Or you could award runtime based on Stream Processing Units , and I'll try to find some 5970s to put on the grid tongue
[Nov 18, 2011 6:22:50 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
sk..
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Re: Help Conquer Cancer September 2011 Update

If 2 tasks run simultaneously you can see both in BM. Both will share GPU resources, so doing this will use more GDDR, CPU time and bus width. Works on Fermi's and high end AMD cards, but not all cards.
If GPU utilization by the app is low (say <75%) using an altered app_info.xml file can improve overall task return. If GPU utilization is high however (say >85%) it either makes no difference or can even reduce overall task throughput (as both tasks compete for the same resources). Obviously this varies from project to project, and is app dependent. So depending on utilization the anonymous platform could be useful, or could be a bad thing.

Elapsed time would rise normally for both tasks. So my concern is that the anonymous platform could be misused, just to increase Run Time Rankings. On some projects people run 3 tasks on the one GPU, and some people have systems with 3 or 4 GPU's. They are doing this for the extra points - most projects don't have a Run Time credit system. If these HCC tasks are very small (<100MB), someone could conceivably be running 10 per GPU, just for the Run Time credit.

- So GPU count by Run Time, and then by SM count ;P:
The formula uses,
<coproc> <count>0.5</count> </coproc>, for 2 tasks or <coproc> <count>0.33</count> </coproc> for 3 tasks per GPU...

- I still think you should just award a separate Badge for GPU's based on credit, rather than Run Time.
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by skgiven at Nov 18, 2011 8:37:48 PM]
[Nov 18, 2011 6:57:37 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KWSN - A Shrubbery
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Re: Help Conquer Cancer September 2011 Update

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how this issue is unfair in any way. No one that I am aware of even pays attention to run time for bragging rights. It's all about the point total.

This argument is the equivalent of saying it would be unfair for me to have a stable of atoms instead of a single multi-core system.

I have a very high run time accumulated because I started processing on a 486/25. My points still lag significantly. That's just the way it works. Each one represents a different thing and should be read accordingly.
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[Nov 19, 2011 4:37:16 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
nasher
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Re: Help Conquer Cancer September 2011 Update

i think equal credit for equal work sounds good.

i am currently running 5 cores (just fixed one of my computers)

i dont think any of my gpu's will run any of the projects but if they do great if not then fine.

the goal is to get work done. the badge process helps make it fun

if the gpu's come online as well then i am happy for whatever gpu's do the work

right now lets get everything going on the projects we have with what we have... if the HCC2 starts in the new year i will be happy but we need to make sure we get hcc1 finished.

any and every project on WCG is working for good things it doesn't matter what anyone runs we are helping get things cured .

i am 1 1/2 years out from thyroid cancer I survived... hopefully it will remain in remission.

cancer research is one of my main goals but i love working on all the other diseases as well

so basically
if i dont care how they reward badges for gpu... if someone manages to have a gpu that counts as 1 or 200 cores equivalent who cares... the goal is to get the projects done ok so they will get there sapphire badge quicker but we will also get the research done quicker.

lets cure everything before we die from it
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[Nov 19, 2011 5:18:01 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Help Conquer Cancer September 2011 Update

Yeah great news in deed. Well I hope I can help with my 2 ATI 4670s (single precision or 32-bit flops only), I don't have money to buy a better card now, CAL is fully supported and OpenCL only partially, anyway what researchers want is double precision or better, too bad :( That's why I'm participating in the only protein folding project my vide cards (VCs) can do some good and only for a limited time: Folding@Home, after a while GPU2 client will be phased out, GPU3 (Fully OpenCL compliant and for double precision VCs) has still some bugs and the main reason IMO that GPU is still alive.

I wish I could do more with my hardware, maybe if they find a way to use pairs of stream processors to make them work to give double precision results... I wouldn't mind being half as fast since I have 2 VCs so I can keep helping, well time will tell what should I do...
[Nov 23, 2011 4:43:04 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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