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Sekerob
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Re: New projects to come?

Frankly, the one part that mystifies me is the large space between member/title and the country... nobody is going to put her/his full home address there. Contract and insert a separation line if need be is my thought on this.
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[Oct 8, 2009 12:43:10 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
sk..
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Re: New projects to come?

Since this Influenza Antiviral Drug Search project has ended I think we can ramble on about whatever we like, the jobs been well done!
So here goes...
I would like to see a change of badge ideology by the WCG Team.
Instead of getting badges for days completed, I would like to see badges for work performed.

Why give someone a badge for 2 weeks of running a 900MHz CPU all day every day and getting through 10 tasks, and the same for someone who is actually doing about ten times the work on their 3.x GHz CPU cores?

As is, I could under-clock ALL my systems. My electric bill would be lower, and I would get the same number of badges!?!

The WCG team needs to work out that it’s about getting through tasks, and rewarding for work done, not days to get the work done.

If you pay someone by the hour rather than for the job, the job tends to take longer confused
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by skgiven at Oct 13, 2009 8:20:05 PM]
[Oct 13, 2009 8:16:23 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
jasm580
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Re: New projects to come?

Why give someone a badge for 2 weeks of running a 900MHz CPU all day every day and getting through 10 tasks, and the same for someone who is actually doing about ten times the work on their 3.x GHz CPU cores?

I don't think the point is to reward the ones that have money to buy the fastest systms. There is a lot of bandwidth tied up on all those 900MHz systems out there. That is the whole point of distrubuted computing. I don't want to see them give up on WCG and go somewhere else just because you want more points.
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-Jasm
[Oct 13, 2009 9:50:22 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
sk..
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Re: New projects to come?

I don't think the point is to reward the ones that have money to buy the fastest systms.

The Point is to get the most work done and recognise the contributions appropriately.
There is a lot of bandwidth tied up on all those 900MHz systems out there.

So what?
That is the whole point of distrubuted computing.


What, to tie up bandwidth?
I don't want to see them give up on WCG and go somewhere else just because you want more points.

I would prefer people used faster more economical computers, but it is up to them.
More points will come my way no matter who leaves because I am staying, and not for points!
[Oct 13, 2009 11:20:19 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: New projects to come?

Skgiven, do you remember the first introduction of badges (you should because you joined earlier than me)? I think it was just one single badge per project to acknowledge that you contributed at least 14 days of work for that project. That intention was changed later to provide more levels of contributed time, first until yellow, now until blue(, later until ???). So this was a consistent extention of the original purpose - to show that (and how long) a member contributed to a project, not to reward its computing power.
To do that the badge ideology really had to be changed, but that's a key question - acknowledge contributed time or contributed computing power. I prefer the first one because I consider it more important to attract masses of private computer users (with less computing power) that few computer farm owners (with incredible computer power). Sure the latter case could speed up project completion but if the masses back out simply because they have not the slightest chance to reach more than the first few badge levels, we loose popularity and attractiveness. And that could mean that the computer farmers later vanish as well.
WCG should not degenerate to a competition platform for most computer power...

just my opinion
[Oct 14, 2009 4:57:06 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
sk..
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confused Re: New projects to come?

Skgiven, do you remember the first introduction of badges (you should because you joined earlier than me)? I think it was just one single badge per project to acknowledge that you contributed at least 14 days of work for that project. That intention was changed later to provide more levels of contributed time, first until yellow, now until blue(, later until ???). So this was a consistent extention of the original purpose - to show that (and how long) a member contributed to a project, not to reward its computing power.

I dont need a vague history lesson!
To do that the badge ideology really had to be changed,

From What?
but that's a key question - acknowledge contributed time or contributed computing power.

Well spun, but most people will see through your €computing power€™ skew of my position, and for those that cant, I am proposing that people are acknowledged appropriate to the amount of work done for WCG, as opposed to how slowly they can do tasks.
...but if the masses back out simply because they have not the slightest chance to reach more than the first few badge levels, we loose popularity and attractiveness.


I think points for work done would make the WCG more attractive, especially to new computer users with new systems! The very people that you want to bring on board.

The idea of crunching a project for 2 years to get a blue badge is more off-putting to me. Think about paying for the 2 years of electric to run an i7. Perhaps you want everyone to use a P3 or Duron?
And that could mean that the computer farmers later vanish as well.

Your off on a tangent.
WCG should not degenerate to a competition platform for most computer power...

What? Degenerate? I don€™t think that acknowledging the endeavour and support of WCG users constitutes degeneration.

Again, it is not about computer power, it is about getting results. According to my suggestion, if you have a fast system and rarely use it, you wont get many points, badges or results.
As is, if you have a Duron, you would produce almost no results it being so slow, and yet you get acknowledged for your tireless contribution even though it equates to next to nothing!
[Oct 14, 2009 3:18:24 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
damir1978
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Re: New projects to come?

Skgiven, there is a problem with awarding Badges based on workunits:

When the Genome Comparison Project was active the workunits were so tiny that a lot of people got tens of thousands out of it in merely months. Other projects have huge workunits equal to 15-20 work units form Genome Comparison, or old Dengue workunits (before linking 4-6 of them in a bigger unit) etc.
So, the workunits being variable in length, the Badge Levels would be way easier to get in Help Cure Muscular Dystrophy - Phase 2 for example than FightAIDS@Home or Human Proteome Folding - Phase 2.
That being said, as a side effect people will tend to go to the projects were more workunits can be process in one day than the other Projects. That will create a bad environment for science as some very important Projects need bigger units and they will not be favoured by "badge hunters". The "per Day" system has some flaws but in general suits the needs of badge hunter or Projects.
Also changing the hole system to "per Points" will require a lot of work then just sticking with the old system "per Day" that it just needs adjustment here and there and maybe more Badges "to go boldly where nobody went before".... wink
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[Oct 14, 2009 4:29:06 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Col323
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Re: New projects to come?

Keep in mind that with an i7 running full-tilt, you could get that blue badge in about 3 months.
[Oct 14, 2009 6:23:08 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Ingleside
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Re: New projects to come?

To do that the badge ideology really had to be changed,

From What?

The whole point of introducing the badges was so all the "normal users", the roughly 70% of users that runs WCG on a single computer that is either single-core or dual-core, and has no hope of ever reaching top-10k by points, also should get some recognition for their long-term committment to WCG.

Please remember, if the "target usage" of the home-computer is to read/write email, check the news and pay the bills, and maybe play an ocassional game like solitaire, you don't need an i7 to do this, even a dual-core is on the high-end compared to the requirements. Since already got the computer, choosing to also run one or more DC-projects is just an added bonus for the projects, and actually it would be an advantage to get many more of these users to run DC on their system.


For the multi-computer-users, there's the top-lists to compete in, so adding point-based badges isn't really neccessary in my opinion.
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"I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might."
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by Ingleside at Oct 14, 2009 7:06:02 PM]
[Oct 14, 2009 6:55:54 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
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Re: New projects to come?

You ladies (if any participating in this thread) and gentlemen are getting to the conclusion the badge creators long made and thanks Col323 for clarifying that I7/P3 relational misconception. 95 days per blu badge for these octo threaded monsters.

The rest has been said before, so no point in repeating what else is coming in extensions and features to put on the wall or on your screen desktop, if you fancy that, there's this Active desktop feature few these days have reminiscence of.
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[Oct 14, 2009 7:06:06 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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