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World Community Grid Forums
Category: Support
Forum: Suggestions / Feedback
Thread: Badges |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 116
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4WhQxmsSdepBpEBjB6rbNUMSgTfK
Veteran Cruncher The Great State of Texas Joined: Apr 27, 2007 Post Count: 1053 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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to skgiven: I'm usually not at a loss for words but I don't know what to say here. We use 'what we got" Good,new,old, with or without HT.. It's what we have and we try to get the most out of it. Heck, your machine is better than most on the forum. Don't let this badge deal bother you so much. It really isn't that important. As I said before, "Don't sweat the small stuff" Speed matters, badges don't. I have one friend whose dying from advanced bladder cancer and another who just went through life changing surgery with the same thing. The first guy has a 2 year old daughter who is a gem and sees him as the light in her life. These are the reasons to crunch, and to let something like badges bother us to be blunt is a waste of bandwidth and whatever cpu cycles it takes to write about it. Well said I'm running 6 systems..Badges are second to the research being done. If I get one fine, if I don't fine also. It's all about the work being done. PS only two of my systems use HT. [1-i7, 2-Quads, 2-Duos, 1-old single(w/ht)]  |
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Movieman
Veteran Cruncher Joined: Sep 9, 2006 Post Count: 1042 Status: Offline |
to skgiven: I'm usually not at a loss for words but I don't know what to say here. We use 'what we got" Good,new,old, with or without HT.. It's what we have and we try to get the most out of it. Heck, your machine is better than most on the forum. Don't let this badge deal bother you so much. It really isn't that important. As I said before, "Don't sweat the small stuff" Speed matters, badges don't. I have one friend whose dying from advanced bladder cancer and another who just went through life changing surgery with the same thing. The first guy has a 2 year old daughter who is a gem and sees him as the light in her life. These are the reasons to crunch, and to let something like badges bother us to be blunt is a waste of bandwidth and whatever cpu cycles it takes to write about it. Well said I'm running 6 systems..Badges are second to the research being done. If I get one fine, if I don't fine also. It's all about the work being done. PS only two of my systems use HT. [1-i7, 2-Quads, 2-Duos, 1-old single(w/ht)] 5 machines in my house on WCG. just one with HT, the gainestown rig.  |
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sk..
Master Cruncher http://s17.rimg.info/ccb5d62bd3e856cc0d1df9b0ee2f7f6a.gif Joined: Mar 22, 2007 Post Count: 2324 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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It is easier to find some moral high ground and sit on it
 , than to stand up to a problem and fix it.What, facilitate long term universal WCG support?  Im doing 13% more work, I dont need to think,  and there is no way Im going to do anything. Its also easy to say its all about doing the work and not about the badges when you have an i7 feeding icons to your profile.  Fairness might not matter to you, you might not care who leaves, or even want to think about it. Its easier to criticize than do something, just let it happen...  ... No philanthropists here, this is the Hyper-Threaded Community Grid, for philatelists. Bye, |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
The reason for being a member is to finish the WU for the scientists. The more WU crunched, the more credit granted. The faster the crunching, the more credit. Crunch 24 hours per day versus 12 hours per day, more credit. Eight cores rather than 2 cores, the more credit.
I hope you see the pattern here. It is about results. The badges are recognition of what you deliver to the scientists. The science is the goal and the badges are just signposts along the way.  |
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widdershins
Veteran Cruncher Scotland Joined: Apr 30, 2007 Post Count: 674 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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For me badges, however allocated, are not that important. It's nice to have a few, but the only one I really want hasn't been created yet. It's the one for "You crunched the WU that was the cure for XXXX.
There is no truly "fair" method of allocating badges. Points are also flawed as a measure. My machine is a q6600 runing 64 bit Kbuntu. It consistently overclaims points compared with 32 bit systems. Sure the handicapping system knocks the actual points awarded down a bit, but I'd bet money I'm still getting more points overall than I'd get if using a 32 bit OS. I didn't choose 64 bit to get more points, I chose it as it seemed the logical future proof choice of OS for a 64 bit processor and didn't notice the points difference till later. But if 64 bit skews points as HT skews time how are points better as a measure for badges? |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
We already have WCG points and BOINC credits to gauge actual work done. If those numbers are important to you, throw a stats bar in your sig.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the badges were introduced to encourage participation by all members and add a little fun the the grid and forums. How would you design a points based badge system that would encourage participation by all? Lets look at 2 machines at the opposite ends of the spectrum: overclocked 4.2GHz i9 6 core, 12 thread- 50,000 points/day stock p3- 800 points/day (a guess on my part) Figures for gold badge with run time based badges: i9 run time: 7.5 calendar days generating 375,000 points p3 run time: 90 calendar days generating 72,000 points With the goal of encouraging fun and participation, where do you set the goal post for the gold badge based on points? 500k? The p3 owner will never get one. 75k? The i9 owner gets it in 1.5 days, even faster than he does now. Run time badges are not perfect, but still better than points in my opinion. Yes, points based badges would be a more accurate reflection of work done, but like I said earlier, I don't think that was their original purpose. |
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smeyer55
Senior Cruncher Joined: Feb 15, 2009 Post Count: 303 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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XS_fallwind
Judging from my points, it looks like I'm doing around 1 million points/year of work. Using only my data the badges could be: Sapphire - 2 million points Emerald - 1 million points Ruby - 500,000 points Gold - 250,000 points Silver 125,000 points Bronze 41,667 points I don't know how this cooresponds with other people's data. I do have an i7 with HT crunching away. Using these numbers your stock P3 example would take 10 months to get gold compared to 5 days with an i9. Doesn't sound very fun for the P3 person. Steve |
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Ingleside
Veteran Cruncher Norway Joined: Nov 19, 2005 Post Count: 974 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Ingleside, The whole point of introducing the badges was so all the "normal users", the roughly 70% of users that runs WCG on a single computer that is either single-core or dual-core, and has no hope of ever reaching top-10k by points, also should get some recognition for their long-term committment to WCG. What is a NORMAL USER in the Ingleside Dictionary? I bet you just pulled that 70% out of the air! Gibber, backed by pseudo quantification and made up statistics â Iâm glad you are not trying to argue for my proposal. Sorry for not answering before, didn't see this post before now.  I've used http://boinc.berkeley.edu/boinc_papers/internet/paper.pdf as a basis, most specifically from table 5, page 5. Now, this paper is from 2006, and uses data from SETI@home, so can't directly be translated to WCG. Still, let's compare a couple things can compare. According to this old paper, each active user has 1.76 active computers, and 73% of users has a single computer. Going by Boincstats, SETI@home now has... 1.62 active computers per active user. WCG on the other hand has... 1.94 active computers per active user, significantly higher. But, is this higher activity due to more home-users using two or more computers, or due to some users with lots of computers? Hard to say, but the top-WCG-user by last months production is roughly 3x larger than top-seti-user's production, and there's also 5 others WCG-users with higher production. If looks longer down on the top-100-list on the other hand, WCG drops much faster off than SETI@home does, even then takes-into account the more active SETI-computers. So, if goes by the paper, it can look like WCG has more users in the 1000+ active computers-group, more or less similar #users in the 100-1000 group, but less users in the 11-100-group... So, does this mean more users in the 2-10-group? Possibly, if the top-users is responsible for 10k "more" computers, and 20k users has added a 2nd. computer, there's the 30k more active computers compared to SETI@home's 1.64 computer per user. If supposes this correction, WCG has... 54% of active users runs a single computer... But, when again, if it's instead 10k for the top-users, 10k of the group 2-10 has added a 3rd. or 4th or so on-computer, and 10k adds their 2nd. computer, you're at 63%... So, is 70% too high for WCG? Possibly, it's maybe closer to 60%. The problem with the stats is that very many users hides #computers they have, so it's impossible to know from the BOINC-stats how many users is in the different groups. Also, WCG's own stats is even worse to use for this, since the only shown here is the total-count, and these isn't even in the ballpark correct when it comes to active computers. BTW, according to WCG, the top-producer has... 27563 "device installations". If this is real, active computers, and not maybe 90% grand-children of grand-children re-installations, and most retired for a long time ago, you'll nearly from this user alone got the higher average active computer/user in WCG... But, regardless of 60% or 70% is single-computer-users, the fact is still that the majority of WCG-users has no hope of ever reaching top-10k by points.  "I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might." |
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Movieman
Veteran Cruncher Joined: Sep 9, 2006 Post Count: 1042 Status: Offline |
Can I offer an analogy to this issue?
----------------------------------------Not perfect but in it's own way has some similarities. On the XtremeSystems team we have app 235 people who contribute every day. We average app 6 million points per day as a team. We're the #3 team overall and in the dailies so you'll grant me that it's a pretty strong team. We have guys on the team who as my buddy serlv calls them: "crazed mo-fo's" ( He's one of them!..LOL) 10-20 machines in their homes, all high end, you get the picture. Then at the other end we have guys with single machines and what you might consider "slow" machines from todays standards. When I speak with any of them I don't see these people as "Oh, he does XXXXXXXX points a day so he's "better" than someone who does a lesser amount. I see them as people and friends and the hell with how much one does vs another. I've had some of the younger kids PM me and say almost these exact words more times than I can remember: " Hey Dave, I'd like to join the team but I only have X as a machine and it won't do a lot." I always answer them with the same line: "You bring what you can and whatever it is, it's the "right" amount." Everyone in this world has different finances and abilities and we "give" what we are able to. It is the giving that is important not the quantity given. It is the heart that matters my friends and I beleive that so much I call the guys on the team the "good hearts " people. The givers of this world, not the takers. We have an entire community here of "givers" and to let any of us feel that he/she is being slighted because of a flaw in a system that awards an essentially useless colored square beside your name is a mistake. From the comments here it appears that this flaw essentially only bothers one or two people but even so, they are important. I think if I was standing face to face I would say " Please let this go and see that it wasn't an intentional thing and that life isn't perfect. Keep a perspective and see that the important part IS the work itself and the rest is all fun and games.' There's nothing else I can say. If I can't logically persuade these folks of what is important and what isn't then I just don't know what to do or say. A last point: skgiven: If this badge thing so bothers you and you feel cheated come over to the Xtremesystems forum, register, then send me a PM with your WCG login and password and I'll stick my Yorkfield X3380 on your account here for the rest of the year. It does over 20,000PPD and yes, no HT.. Since it will be on your account you can set it for whatever project you desire. This isn't a polite offer, I'm dead serious. Thanks for reading.. [Edit 3 times, last edit by Movieman at Oct 21, 2009 2:49:59 AM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
MM- I'm just speachless.
For reference - I am one of those younger kids. (kinda) Joined XS soon after learning about WCG. Didn't have much. Originally just a single athlon crunching, but that was enough. It's about the science, the badges are cool, but know you're part of something so much bigger. And if i know anything skgiven, MM will follow through on that... |
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